Part of Obamacare Delayed a Year

[red321]

You should look back at old discussions if you want to know what opponents were suggesting as alternatives. Needing to make changes to a problematic system is not an excuse for poorly thought out over sweeping legislation with no implementation plan. Almost any idea would have been better than this crap of a bill. 

 

Please provide links to those old discussions. Because I've watched the...hell, is it 40? 50? Repeal bills...and there is never a discussion about alternatives.

 

Thanks

[Lifetime]

there have been plenty of discussions here red, that's what I was referring to as I thought that is what you were talking about when you said "opponents of the legislation". Be that as it may, not having a good alternative is not an excuse for passing a piece of crap monstrosity of a bill. The bill should be shitcanned and smaller reforms that can be managed and implemented should take its place. Get those reforms active and functioning and build on it. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I just remember hearing how this was to be Obama's legacy and how adamant he was about getting it done.  It's a shame that ego trumped doing what would have been better for the country. 

[mtangelsfan]

Red you know dang well most of those discussions are gone now with the old site.

[red321]

there have been plenty of discussions here red, that's what I was referring to as I thought that is what you were talking about when you said "opponents of the legislation". Be that as it may, not having a good alternative is not an excuse for passing a piece of crap monstrosity of a bill. The bill should be shitcanned and smaller reforms that can be managed and implemented should take its place. Get those reforms active and functioning and build on it. 

 

Ah, I see...the Republican party just needed to consult the healthcare marketplace experts on Angelswin to solve the crisis? Good plan. Again, there have been no credible plans floated by the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party, etc. etc.

 

So, your thought is that with the current political environment they'll be able to start from scratch? Laugh.

 

I agree they should look at reforms, use the existing legislation as a basis and get to work amending what needs to be amended. Did they take on too much at once? Looks like they did...but they've also instituted some solid improvements like covering dependents until 26, coverage for people with catastrophic or pre-existing conditions/high-risk pools, the exchanges appears to be showing changes if CA is any example (it is), and reports are showing that healthcare costs are actually starting to level off or grow at rates less than projected without any reforms. There are positive developments.

[red321]

Red you know dang well most of those discussions are gone now with the old site.

 

I don't view the healthcare experts on AW as actual proof that the opposition to the ACA have legitimate alternate plans, sorry

[nate]

Again, you think the government could have implemented a public option better than private insurers could have?  Hilarious.

[red321]

Again, you think the government could have implemented a public option better than private insurers could have?  Hilarious.

 

They already have Nate

[Lifetime]

Ah, I see...the Republican party just needed to consult the healthcare marketplace experts on Angelswin to solve the crisis? Good plan. Again, there have been no credible plans floated by the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party, etc. etc.

 

So, your thought is that with the current political environment they'll be able to start from scratch? Laugh.

 

I agree they should look at reforms, use the existing legislation as a basis and get to work amending what needs to be amended. Did they take on too much at once? Looks like they did...but they've also instituted some solid improvements like covering dependents until 26, coverage for people with catastrophic or pre-existing conditions/high-risk pools, the exchanges appears to be showing changes if CA is any example (it is), and reports are showing that healthcare costs are actually starting to level off or grow at rates less than projected without any reforms. There are positive developments.

perfect, condescending response as usual. I wasn't suggesting Republicans look to AW to solve the problem, nor did I represent those alternative discussed here as proof that the political opponents of ACA had legitimate alternative plans, but of course you knew that.

 

Yes, they should start from scratch. There is no reason to continue to push implementation of this current plan. It's an unworkable disaster. So take the parts that are "working" and separate them into their own concise bill and scrap the rest. Put forth smaller reform bills that have workable implementation plans. 

[mtangelsfan]

I don't view the healthcare experts on AW as actual proof that the opposition to the ACA have legitimate alternate plans, sorry

 

Fair enough, although I don't buy the reasoning that because another alternate plan wasn't given as a good enough reason to deliver this heaping pile of dog poo that is called ACA, Obamacare or whatever.  I realize that is the meme that many advocates are using but it fails the logic test.  It's kind of like Sosh saying that because the team didn't have a 5 star farm hand in the mix he should keep starting Mathis.

[red321]

perfect, condescending response as usual. I wasn't suggesting Republicans look to AW to solve the problem, nor did I represent those alternative discussed here as proof that the political opponents of ACA had legitimate alternative plans, but of course you knew that.

 

Yes, they should start from scratch. There is no reason to continue to push implementation of this current plan. It's an unworkable disaster. So take the parts that are "working" and separate them into their own concise bill and scrap the rest. Put forth smaller reform bills that have workable implementation plans. 

 

I'm giving you a chance Lifetime...please reference these alternatives. Repeal and status quo is not an alternative.

[nate]

They already have Nate

 

No they haven't.  They have Medicare and Medicaid.  They would have to setup something completely new for this.  Hire all new people, create all new infrastructure, etc.

[Lifetime]

I'm giving you a chance Lifetime...please reference these alternatives. Repeal and status quo is not an alternative.

Repeal and status quo is not what I suggested. thanks.

[red321]

Fair enough, although I don't buy the reasoning that because another alternate plan wasn't given as a good enough reason to deliver this heaping pile of dog poo that is called ACA, Obamacare or whatever.  I realize that is the meme that many advocates are using but it fails the logic test.  It's kind of like Sosh saying that because the team didn't have a 5 star farm hand in the mix he should keep starting Mathis.

 

Healthcare was a growing disaster in this country...doing nothing was not an option. Our costs, especially compared to how many people aren't covered or are undercovered is ridiculous. It is one of the leading causes of bankrupcy in this country...people shouldn't have to choose between treating a serious life threatening condition and losing everything. That is inhumane and as a country we should be embarrassed. People shouldn't have to use the emergency room as a primary physician, hell, from a medical standpoint that drives costs through the roof.

 

The ACA was never perfect but moves us in the right direction. Even during the debate no realistic alternatives were proposed, outside of Obama is evil and sooocialism. Personally I wish we never took the transitional step and went straight to public option or better yet single payer...but that was obviously impossible in a climate where one party was going to be opposed to healthcare reform, regardless of what was presented (keep in mind, the ACA is basically the Republican plan for HCR back in the 80's and 90's.) When one of the leading voices in the Republican (Jim DeMint) vows that he would try and make healthcare Obama's waterloo...you aren't negotiating with a party that is looking to solve a problem or be part of the discussion.

[red321]

Repeal and status quo is not what I suggested. thanks.

 

last chance if you want to participate in the discussion...what do you suggest? Reference all those alternatives.

[red321]

No they haven't.  They have Medicare and Medicaid.  They would have to setup something completely new for this.  Hire all new people, create all new infrastructure, etc.

 

There's your blueprint. 

 

The costs to administer those programs is significantly less than commercial plans and I'm guessing the patient's satisfaction with those plans is significantly higher than what it is for the average person and their health care plans. If you added tens of millions, hell, hundreds of millions, younger and healthier people to what is essentially a high risk pool can you imagine how much you could drive down costs? That's why I've never understood folks who want to raise the medicare age, stupidest thing you can do...you take out the low risk people and leave the high risk/high cost people.

[Glen]

For the record, doing nothing is always an option, just as is failure.  

[Spirit]

Too bad we didn't have someone here on the board that has to work on the implementation of health care plans within a company and has a decent knowledge as to how things work.

 

 

Nate ... what is it that you do for a living? 

[nate]

I am a project manager in charge of implementing the Affordable Care Act for a large health insurer.

 

Is that what you were looking for?  

[Spirit]

I am a project manager in charge of implementing the Affordable Care Act for a large health insurer.

 

Is that what you were looking for?  

 

 

Just trying to confirm that you have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

 

=)

[Lifetime]

last chance if you want to participate in the discussion...what do you suggest? Reference all those alternatives.

LOL! 

[red321]

And I've spent 15+ years working as a director and program manager in the healthcare space. I've never doubted Nate knew his shit in this area...I like browsing through his thoughts on the subject.

[Adam]

Forcing people to pay for insurance and fining them if they don't is fundamentally worse than anything we've had to this point.

 

I'll let the experts (Nate) debate the rest of it all. 

[halobob]

Forcing people to pay for insurance and fining them if they don't is fundamentally worse than anything we've had to this point.

 

I'll let the experts (Nate) debate the rest of it all. 

I agree, I'm young and healthy and don't currently need health insurance.  BS that I have to pay high premiums to cover the unhealthy population or I get fined.  How the **** is that constitutional?

[red321]

Forcing people to have coverage for a service that statistically almost everyone will need at some point in their lives, is fundamentally worse than someone who can't get coverage because they were born with a genetic defect? Or not being able to afford a life saving treatment because you are a small business owner (and his wife and small child) that was dropped from your health plan after your first bought with cancer? Fundamentally worse than having to throw fund raisers to pay for your life saving treatments (I attended two last month for friends who can't afford the medical bills associated with their cancer treatments).

 

I think we have differing viewpoints on that.

 

As for halobob...the Supreme Court has ruled on that...you are wrong.