Steroids

[Bashbrothers]

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/actual-effects.shtml

 

 

It's a pretty unpopular opinion, but I felt this was worthy of discussion.  Statistics show that steroids have exactly no effect on performance. 

[Tyler]

Is confidence a stat?

[Bashbrothers]

Is confidence a stat?

Well, it is essentially a placebo, so I am sure it does give them more confidence.

[Halos of Anaheim]

Well, it is essentially a placebo, so I am sure it does give them more confidence.

It raises testosterone, which is the hormone that built this world. Test is the master confidence booster.

[seenoevil]

Puigroids

[mancini79]

For this 1 article, there are 100 that dispute this. Steroids have a significant impact of a player's performance.

 

But just for the sake of argument that this article is legit...then why even allow them? If it's proven that roids don't enhance a player's performance, then why even take them? The long term side effects from roid use are real. How would you feel that your favorite player dies of a heart attack from an enlarged heart at the age of 50 or suffers from chronic liver failure. Maybe it won't matter since that player hit "X" of HR's in their playing days. Oh, and the MLB would face huge lawsuits from ailing retired players that MLB encouraged roid use by not banning them.

[sneaky_flute]

it boosts muscle recovery so i think it can improve performance in that regard.

[Blarg]

Was this report from the same doctors that work for the tobacco industry?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

It is clear that steroids increase muscle mass quickly, and to a much greater extent than one would get with a program of weightlifting and other gym routines. Speeding up tissue growth is what legitimate, prescription steroids (such as prednisone) do, and the illegitimate ones are reportedly better at it. Prescription steroids are meant to speed healing, while the more powerful ones take it a step further. Look at a picture of Barry Bonds his last year in Pittsburgh and and compare it to one taken after he got to San Francisco and you can see the obvious effects. I told a coworker shortly after he arrived in Frisco that he was juicing, and he told me I was nuts. I saw a lot of things in Bonds that you see in long-term prednisone users: The moon face, the thickened neck. It was plain to me that something chemical was going on.

 

Drugs that stimulate tissue growth can also stimulate the wrong kind of tissue growth. They can fuel cancer cells as well, if they are present in sufficient quantities to take hold. Our bodies produce abnormal cells all the time, but in most cases our immune systems take them out before they can become established and replicate. If you're taking a drug that increases the cell replication rate, the immune system may not be able to keep up. This is presumably what happened to former Broncos and Raiders defensive lineman Lyle Alzado, an admitted steroid user. Steroids also have other nasty side effects like genital atrophy and mood alteration (i. e., "roid rage").

 

Steroids aren't so good that you can pull a guy out of a bus station, give him steroids and he will hit 50 home runs. However, take a player who already has the skills and greatly increase his strength over a relatively short period of time, and you get a guy who hits 73 home runs in his late 30s.

[stormngt]

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/actual-effects.shtml

 

 

It's a pretty unpopular opinion, but I felt this was worthy of discussion.  Statistics show that steroids have exactly no effect on performance. 

If they have no effect on performance than why do athletes take them?  Why do the spend a lot of money to hide them?

 

AND

 

HOW THE HELL DOES A MAN LIKE BARRY BONDS HIT BETTER IN HIS LATE THIRTIES THAN HE DID IN HIS TWENTIES?

 

Sometimes you have to ignore that statistical data and use the common sense approach.

[RallyMo]

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/actual-effects.shtml

 

 

It's a pretty unpopular opinion, but I felt this was worthy of discussion.  Statistics show that steroids have exactly no effect on performance. 

 

They have absolutely no effect on performance. Just ask your screen name.

[AZMike]

They have absolutely no effect on performance. Just ask your screen name.

 

 

 

All the article proves is that power hitters haven't picked up a relative advantage over pitchers (independent of changes to the ball). That's likely becaues both many pitchers and many batters are using PEDs. The whole level of play is escalating due to PED use but the balance of the game on average hasn't skewed in favor of pitchers or power hitters. 

[Bashbrothers]

If they have no effect on performance than why do athletes take them?  Why do the spend a lot of money to hide them?

 

AND

 

HOW THE HELL DOES A MAN LIKE BARRY BONDS HIT BETTER IN HIS LATE THIRTIES THAN HE DID IN HIS TWENTIES?

 

Sometimes you have to ignore that statistical data and use the common sense approach.

Well, if that's your response I am not convinced you read the article because there was a whole section dedicated to him as a case study.

[Bashbrothers]

For this 1 article, there are 100 that dispute this. Steroids have a significant impact of a player's performance.

 

But just for the sake of argument that this article is legit...then why even allow them? If it's proven that roids don't enhance a player's performance, then why even take them? The long term side effects from roid use are real. How would you feel that your favorite player dies of a heart attack from an enlarged heart at the age of 50 or suffers from chronic liver failure. Maybe it won't matter since that player hit "X" of HR's in their playing days. Oh, and the MLB would face huge lawsuits from ailing retired players that MLB encouraged roid use by not banning them.

Same reason people wear balance bracelets or change socks after every loss.

[mancini79]

Same reason people wear balance bracelets or change socks after every loss.

 

When bracelets and socks start killing people, then I'll take notice.

[Bashbrothers]

When bracelets and socks start killing people, then I'll take notice.

I am not advocating steroid use.  I am arguing they have no effect.   In every study that views the affect of users to nonusers show that, which is more than this article.

 

I was only addressing with the comment you were replying too is why players take them.  It's essentially a placebo.  People take things they think improves their ability all the time.

[tdawg87]

I am not advocating steroid use.  I am arguing they have no effect.   In every study that views the affect of users to nonusers show that, which is more than this article.

 

I'm going to pull a Lifetime here and say, every study?

[Bashbrothers]

I'm going to pull a Lifetime here and say, every study?

Okay. Studies that use large aggregate samples to compare two large populations.  There are case studies that try to prove steroids improve performance, such as Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Okay. Studies that use large aggregate samples to compare two large populations.  There are case studies that try to prove steroids improve performance, such as Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds. 

 

And in both cases they clearly did. Simple biology says that you aren't at your physical peak in your late 30s.

[Bashbrothers]

And in both cases they clearly did. Simple biology says that you aren't at your physical peak in your late 30s.

 In the article linked it covers Barry Bonds.  Although, nothing definitely can be proven for his specific case. 

 

I don't like anomalies when discussing the effects of something though.  A large sample is always the better way to go. 

[RallyMo]

 In the article linked it covers Barry Bonds.  Although, nothing definitely can be proven for his specific case. 

 

I don't like anomalies when discussing the effects of something though.  A large sample is always the better way to go. 

 

The article covers Bonds.

 

...and it mentions that people often have a year that exceeds what they otherwise do normally. 

 

...and it says that Bonds was the victim of a terrible injustice.

 

...and it does absolutely NOTHING to disprove that Bonds used steroids.

 

Furthermore, it goes on to talk about guys that have had that "inexplicable" career year, and how common it is.

 

The problem with this defense of Bonds is the track record of everybody else that had such years and claimed to be clean.

 

McGwire claimed to be clean, and later admits to steroid use over a 10 year period, including his 70 HR season.

 

The other half of your handle's namesake: well, you know

 

Sosa claimed to be clean, and tested positive in 2003. I'm sure he didn't use in the years he was blasting the living sh*t out of baseballs.

 

ARod admits to using in a certain time period. It coincides with his hitting 10 and then almost 20 more HRs than in the season prior.

 

If you don't want to look at anomalies because you feel that they aren't appropriate in a discussion of steroids, that's just picking and choosing to suit your needs.

 

If you think anomalies don't help win WS titles or shatter records, which is where everybody's problems truly lie... well then: they do.

 

Anomalies are important. They are the cases which grab the attention of people. They are the things that give the organization that you root for a title in 1989.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

It would be easy to find individual players for whom steroids didn't make a difference and therefore conclude that this is the case for everyone who uses them. However, this would be totally bogus. Players use them to bulk up all the time, and added muscle mass clearly adds strength. To conclude otherwise is to display complete ignorance about how steroids work and what they do. Used for their intended purpose, they speed healing of various tissues in the body. Used to excess, they create physical freaks.

 

A friend of mine, who played college football at a church-sponsored Division I school, said that the school paid for and provided steroids that helped him to add 60 pounds between spring camp and football season his freshman year (he was an offensive lineman). Mike Golic, who played in the NFL for several seasons, said that it was one of the worst kept secrets in the league that the entire offensive line of the great Pittsburgh Steelers teams was juicing. If there were no benefit to using steroids, they would have disappeared from the sports landscape long ago. Players gain strength and endurance, they tell other players about it and new customers are created.

[The God of Runs]

Okay, since everyone seems to be avoiding it, I'll ask the obvious: how many HRs does Willits hit had he taken steroids?

[sneaky_flute]

steroids facilitate muscle growth that can usually be achieved naturally. whether or not that's cheating is subjective.

 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

steroids facilitate muscle growth that can usually be achieved naturally. whether or not that's cheating is subjective.

 

Continued steroid use greatly exceeds what can be achieved in the gym without them. There is a natural limit to how much muscle tissue can be added through exercise. Anyone who has ever undertaken an exercise regimen can tell you about reaching a plateau, beyond which no increase or improvement can be achieved no matter how long or how hard they continue to work out. Continuing to take a chemical that accelerates tissue growth removes that natural restriction. There are limits to what steroids can do as well, but the threshold is much higher.