Gameday Thread: Rangers @ Angels (3/18/23): Canning on the mound

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Canning with a solid outing. 

 

18 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Canning out after 4 2/3.  Looked good again!  Second inning was somewhat shaky, but he got out of it without anything happening--and he was pretty dominant otherwise.  Should have let him finish out the 5th, but good to see him healthy and locked in.

Canning >>> Davidson.

I guess there are worse problems to have.

[Blarg]

I haven't watched every inning he has played in the field but what I have seen it looks like Adell has taken a big step forward on his defense.

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Blarg said:

I haven't watched every inning he has played in the field but what I have seen it looks like Adell has taken a big step forward on his defense.

You need to watch more of his innings, then. 

[ScottM]

Canning's injury was so demoralizing that I think a lot of us forgot what he's capable of. This guy could still be a solid #3 or a #2 if everything shakes out in his favor. 

[Angel Oracle]

Problem with Davidson is that if he’s the 6th starter, that’s FIVE lefties in the rotation; and if he takes Barria’s spot in the pen, that’s FOUR lefties in the bullpen.

Really think that if he continues to pitch well this spring, try to trade him.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

Canning's injury was so demoralizing that I think a lot of us forgot what he's capable of. This guy could still be a solid #3 or a #2 if everything shakes out in his favor. 

I tried multiple times to point out that he was viewed across baseball as a breakout candidate coming into the season he broke down.  I pointed out how the moronic positioning had made everyone look bad and while Canning hadn't been impacted as much as everyone else, he wasn't helped any either.  Angel fans can be some of the biggest what have you done for me lately fans on the internet.

Last year's example of this..  Jared Walsh.

[Taylor]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

Canning >>> Davidson.

I guess there are worse problems to have.

That's why I think he'll be slotted in as #5 or #6. He's earned it.

[Angel Oracle]

44 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Canning out after 4 2/3.  Looked good again!  Second inning was somewhat shaky, but he got out of it without anything happening--and he was pretty dominant otherwise.  Should have let him finish out the 5th, but good to see him healthy and locked in.

Looks like around 60 pitches was the limit.   Made 62 pitches, good efficiency.

Should be able to throw 70-75 pitches in remaining ST start.

[Blarg]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I tried multiple times to point out that he was viewed across baseball as a breakout candidate coming into the season he broke down.  I pointed out how the moronic positioning had made everyone look bad and while Canning hadn't been impacted as much as everyone else, he wasn't helped any either.  Angel fans can be some of the biggest what have you done for me lately fans on the internet.

Last year's example of this..  Jared Walsh.

Well, to be fair, it is a performance based industry. We really don't care why there is a lack of performance, we just want to see players being competitive rather than IL repetitive. Canning came as damaged goods then cycled back and forth to the IL without contributing. There is a reason fans went sour on him and it wasn't a bad outing now and then. It was the complete lack of outings.

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Well, to be fair, it is a performance based industry. We really don't care why there is a lack of performance, we just want to see players being competitive rather than IL repetitive. Canning came as damaged goods then cycled back and forth to the IL without contributing. There is a reason fans went sour on him and it wasn't a bad outing now and then. It was the complete lack of outings.

Sure, I get that -- but my point is he came into his "broken season" with a career ERA of 4.36, good for a 106 ERA, this despite his having pitched a total of 131 minor league innings.  The real kicker is ERA wasn't why people needed to be high on him, it was the underlying data that painted positive picture of what was to come.  Like Suarez he had been rushed and put into a situation he never should have been. And yes, he was damaged goods, that's the only reason they got him in the second round.  He got injured, he missed time -- it happens.

 

[Angels 1961]

Canning has looked good so has Silseth and Davidson. What I'm pleased about Canning if he is healthy. Again spring stats do not count and until they put up numbers during the regular season it's meaningless.

[jsnpritchett]

Turns out Tepera didn't actually have any illegal substances on him.  He got thrown out for complaining about the search itself. 

[Blarg]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He got injured, he missed time -- it happens.

The souring part is it was miss time, miss time, miss time, then miss an entire season. We had this discussion about Skaggs, Heaney, Richardson and their peripherals but none of that made up for their lack of appearances. They had all of the potential of top of the rotation guys but it never materialized. 

Canning may be over his injury but until he starts logging starts he is still just a peripheral without substance. I'm hoping he can be of substance. 

[Blarg]

18 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Turns out Tepera didn't actually have any illegal substances on him.  He got thrown out for complaining about the search itself. 

Miller: Let me see your hands.

Tepera: Are you nutz, I got my ass handed to me out there and you think I'm cheating! Are you as dumb as you are blind?

Miller: You're out of here!

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The souring part is it was miss time, miss time, miss time, then miss an entire season. We had this discussion about Skaggs, Heaney, Richardson and their peripherals but none of that made up for their lack of appearances. They had all of the potential of top of the rotation guys but it never materialized. 

Canning may be over his injury but until he starts logging starts he is still just a peripheral without substance. I'm hoping he can be of substance. 

No we didn't.   

Someone once made the comment that Skaggs was close to becoming the Brandon Wood of Angels SP prospects and I pointed to his ERA+ and relative age to point out how absurd that comment was.   Thats when you chimed in saying he hadn't done enough to merit a defense and in response and I said that both he and his statistical clone needed to stay healthy.

Skaggs peripherals were better than Heaney's but the predictive stuff didn't scream breakout potential.  FIP isn't the sort of shit I look at when talking about breakout potential and FIP was pretty much the sole thing to point to when talking about either Skaggs or Heaney and potential improvement.

I think I actually argued the opposite with Heaney at one point, that he was exceeding what anyone should expect from him.  As far as Canning goes, it wasn't his peripherals that argued he could be better -- it was the actual performance of his pitches -- he outpaced his peripherals but massively underperformed his pitch results which argued it was a defensive or pitch selection issue.

I will say this much -- you are right that regardless of whether its peripherals or pitch performance the time comes when a guy just needs to be able to take the mound.  I wouldn't argue otherwise.

[Inside Pitch]

Found it..

Also -- I found the Skaggs convo about his ERA .vs his peripherals..   
 

Note the date -- this is prior to his injury issues and don't look now but he went from posting a 79 ERA+ through age 22 to a 101 ERA+ from that point until his passing.  

 

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

You need to watch more of his innings, then. 

Honestly I have only seen him butcher one play.  That's not a ringing endorsement but he's not been a nightmare every time the ball has been hit to him like he has at times in the past.

Some of his routes used to look like a penny stock chart.

[Blarg]

56 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I will say this much -- you are right that regardless of whether its peripherals or pitch performance the time comes when a guy just needs to be able to take the mound.  I wouldn't argue otherwise.

That's pretty much all I was saying. Show me something that I can get excited about. A rough outing now and then is noise, just as a complete game or shutout is. Those are the outliers like in golf, you toss out your best and worst rounds and somewhere in between is how you play. We just need Canning to give us a season to do the handicapping to know what kind of pitcher he really is when the sample size is more than 11 or 13 starts. Hopefully he can pitch 20 or more games to give us a clearer picture. 

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Blarg said:

That's pretty much all I was saying. Show me something that I can get excited about. 

Yeah, I think we were just talking about different things. 

My point wasnt that he should be better than he has been so much as it is that people were way too hasty to punt on someone that had actually BEEN good until getting hurt.    

There have been so many letdowns since 2014 that the fanbase sort of throws the baby out with the bathwater at times..  But with Canning it's always been 100% health.  Same with C-Rod -- I have zero doubts he will do well if healthy, he just needs to get healthy.

[wopphil]

15 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah, I think we were just talking about different things. 

My point wasnt that he should be better than he has been so much as it is that people were way too hasty to punt on someone that had actually BEEN good until getting hurt.    

There have been so many letdowns since 2014 that the fanbase sort of throws the baby out with the bathwater at times..  But with Canning it's always been 100% health.  Same with C-Rod -- I have zero doubts he will do well if healthy, he just needs to get healthy.

Speaking of Rodriguez, you have any info on his current status? @Jeff Fletcherdo you? 

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Speaking of Rodriguez, you have any info on his current status? @Jeff Fletcherdo you? 

Jeff will obviously know more -- last I heard is likely what you have.  He's there, he's throwing and they are taking it slowly with him. A part of me wants to believe the team has figured out the best way to save him from himself is to make it impossible for him to break camp with the team so he can start in AA-AAA and build up.

[Docwaukee]

15 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah, I think we were just talking about different things. 

My point wasnt that he should be better than he has been so much as it is that people were way too hasty to punt on someone that had actually BEEN good until getting hurt.    

There have been so many letdowns since 2014 that the fanbase sort of throws the baby out with the bathwater at times..  But with Canning it's always been 100% health.  Same with C-Rod -- I have zero doubts he will do well if healthy, he just needs to get healthy.

looked good being up too early and with not enough experience.  People saw the stuff and got overly excited saying that he could be a 3 or even a 2.  Then got injured but the key point on that is he tried to pitch through an injury.  Just like walsh tried to play through one.  That's where the pitchforks come from.  Poor performance during an injury.  Then you suddenly suck and people just think you suck

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 hours ago, wopphil said:

Speaking of Rodriguez, you have any info on his current status? @Jeff Fletcherdo you? 

He’s been throwing bullpens but they haven’t yet had him face hitters. They keep saying he hasn’t had a setback but he’s clearly not going forward as quickly as hoped. He obviously will start the season on the IL. 

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s been throwing bullpens but they haven’t yet had him face hitters. They keep saying he hasn’t had a setback but he’s clearly not going forward as quickly as hoped. He obviously will start the season on the IL. 

I think it was mentioned above but it seems like they're keeping an ultra tight leash on him.   Basically give him zero chance to make the team out of spring so he doesn't move too quick.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

11 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I think it was mentioned above but it seems like they're keeping an ultra tight leash on him.   Basically give him zero chance to make the team out of spring so he doesn't move too quick.  

I don’t know about that. When I’ve talked to CRod I don’t get the sense that they’re holding him back more than he thinks he should be. Sounds like he still has some days that don’t feel great. 
 

Shoulder surgery is a bad thing. It’s totally different than elbow surgery.