Did they just show Percival in the dugout?

[nate]

TV is muted but I thought I saw him walking through the dugout.

[Angel Oracle]

Percival >>>>>>> Butcher, both as a pitcher and as a potential pitching coach.

[Lifetime]

Why AO? Honestly what do you know about either of their abilities to coach? 

[Stradling]

I will say this LT, we know what we get from Butcher, which at best is average.

[Lifetime]

We do? And how do we know that? 

[yk9001]

Jesus.

 

Every god damn day.

[Caralho]

I thought coaches don't matter so why criticize them.

[SoWhat]

Smh, Worse than a female

[Lifetime]

Jesus.

 

Every god damn day.

Troll

[Glen]

It wasn't Percival, it was the Ghost of Grit leaving the dugout. 

[Stradling]

How do we know that? History I guess would be my answer. I am not on the fire everyone bandwagon, but I can tell you very few pitchers improve under his coaching. Obviously we don't have the ability to see what pitchers would do simultaneously with other pitching coaches so you could use that and "win" the argument, but I'll let my eyes tell me I'm right.

[Brandon]

Jesus.

Every god damn day.

This made me laugh. I don't know who it was intended for or back story, but laughed and thought it summed up the Angels Daily forum in general.

[The God of Runs]

Butcher is the Vernon Wells of pitching coaches. If he were on any other team that cares about winning, he would have been gone 2 years ago.

[Brandon]

I think position coaches in general don't offer too much (what's a hitting coach or runningbacks coach in football going to tell guys good enough to make it to a high pro level?) and Mike thinks the same so he hires his buddies.

[Angel Oracle]

I wonder though if it can make a difference, if even for just a year or two.

What caused the A's to suddenly become a solid team the past 2 seasons?

Was it a coincidence that it started pretty much when Bob Melvin/Curt Young/Chili Davis came aboard?

[Stradling]

AO, you know the answer. They continually sucked and traded their only valuable pieces well before any other team would have considered it.

[Brandon]

I wonder though if it can make a difference, if even for just a year or two.

What caused the A's to suddenly become a solid team the past 2 seasons?

Was it a coincidence that it started pretty much when Bob Melvin/Curt Young/Chili Davis came aboard?

Looks like the same formula they have been using for years....scouting and drafting. Ken Macha and Bob Geren aren't creating talent.

Sure they help with mechanical or experience things with young players, but they aren't going to take someone that sucks and make them better (with an exception in other sports where you put someone in a place where their best qualities are used) or vice versa.

[m0nkey]

So was it troy Percival in the dugout?

[nate]

So was it troy Percival in the dugout?

 

Nobody else saw it?  Was a guy in uniform with a big thick goatee that looked like him.  Definitely wasn't a player or any of the usual coaches.

[Lifetime]

How do we know that? History I guess would be my answer. I am not on the fire everyone bandwagon, but I can tell you very few pitchers improve under his coaching. Obviously we don't have the ability to see what pitchers would do simultaneously with other pitching coaches so you could use that and "win" the argument, but I'll let my eyes tell me I'm right.

I disagree that very few pitchers improve. You don't see many pitchers make marked improvements outside of normal maturity at the big league level. We have seen on numerous occasions however pitchers that go through periods of struggle that recover and get back to their norms under Butcher. We don't really have any idea how good Butcher is compared to other pitching coaches and certainly don't have any way of discerning whether or not Percival would be better, Eyes don't tell much when it comes to evaluating a coach's abilities.

[Stradling]

That's bullshit. You or I could be the coach and have a player struggle then get back to their norms. I am not saying Percival would be better, but I think by now we know what we get from Butcher, which is not much of a difference maker.

[YouthofToday]

I have no idea who would be a better pitching coach. Way too many unknowns and lack of information to state an opinion.

It's not like Butcher claimed "walks are a false stat."

[Lifetime]

That's bullshit. You or I could be the coach and have a player struggle then get back to their norms. I am not saying Percival would be better, but I think by now we know what we get from Butcher, which is not much of a difference maker.

no stradling, it isn't bullshit. Big league coaches don't coach to make bad pitchers good or mediocre pitchers great. Their job is to keep them inside their abilities and mechanics. their job isn't to turn mediocre pitching into great pitching. Sometimes small improvements are made by teaching a young pitcher a new pitch or refining their mechanics but there are few pitchers who make some kind of marked improvement at the big league level.  

[Lifetime]

I have no idea who would be a better pitching coach. Way too many unknowns and lack of information to state an opinion.

It's not like Butcher claimed "walks are a false stat."

I love that you continue to drag out that disingenuous canard.

 

Otherwise, I agree with what you said here.

[Stradling]

I'm not asking him to turn crap into gold I'm asking him to take talent and help them find consistency.