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Jo Adell, at Driveline


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1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

Trout's swing has always been short from what I remember. 

And cool if Adell wants to go somewhere else in five years I guess.  Because that means he'll have earned his starting spot on this team and became cheaply productive.  

Really, all he has to do is turn himself into a league avg OFer by 2024.  

Then likely my imagination about the swing, but what happened with Trout when they decided to pitch him fastballs up and in?  He adjusts, maybe its mostly approach but not just that.  Adell needs to learn both of those things to be the player he wants to be.  

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Yea it’s a shitty situation for Adell as it relates to the Angels. He can figure it out this year in AAA but how does the team give him the big league job next year?  It’ll be perceived as a position of need going into next years free agency. If Ohtani leaves then at least you have two spots.  

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2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea it’s a shitty situation for Adell as it relates to the Angels. He can figure it out this year in AAA but how does the team give him the big league job next year?  It’ll be perceived as a position of need going into next years free agency. If Ohtani leaves then at least you have two spots.  

The timing is fucked.  Even if he crushes it in AAA this year, he won’t have proved himself at the major league level so best he can hope for is fourth outfielder.  On a contending team at least.  I don’t agree with his social media stuff but I’m an old guy, I don’t get young folks nowadays.  
 

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If Adell doesn't get at least 200 PA this year at the major league level then some weird stuff happened.  

It means that every one of our outfielders stayed healthy getting very few days off.  Or that they used Walsh, Rengifo, Drury, Fletcher, or Urshela in the OF because the entire infield was healthy and productive.  

Or it means that Adell got injured or just didn't perform in AAA.  

Basically, there will likely be plenty of chances to get the answers we need for next year.  

And while the Adell situation has been less than ideal to date and there has been some mismanagement and obvious performance issues this could all correct itself pretty quickly.  It's not absolutely necessary for him to suddenly turn a corner and become a highly productive major league player overnight.  He just needs to show some legit progress and justify a roster spot for next year.  

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The outfield is similar to pitching in that you need more "depth" than you think. Sure it would be great if you had 5-6 starters make all your starts and go 6 innings. But the reality is, you need to be 10-12 starters deep. 

Sure, it would be nice if we only used 3-4 outfielders for the full year, but my guess is the number of players that log starts in the outfield this year is probably more like 8 different players. 

Seeing as Adell falls in just behind Moniak on the depth chart, and they also likely get starts here and there from Drury, Walsh and even Urshela, it creates a situation where WHOEVER IS PERFORMING WILL PLAY. 

Having depth does that for you. If Jo Adell plays up to his potential, the Angels would find major league at bats for him everyday. 

My guess is Doc is on the right track. Removing predictions of his performance, I think he's still going to accumulate 40 starts or so this year. 150-ish plate appearances. You combine those with his numbers in AAA and the Angels will know fully well if they can trust him with a full time gig in 2024. 

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1 hour ago, Second Base said:

My guess is Doc is on the right track. Removing predictions of his performance, I think he's still going to accumulate 40 starts or so this year. 150-ish plate appearances. You combine those with his numbers in AAA and the Angels will know fully well if they can trust him with a full time gig in 2024. 

And next year you lose Urshela and Renfroe.  Possibly Ohtani.  Who knows how Walsh and Fletcher are going to perform this year.  

So you'll need a possible SS, 1b, LF and DH plus backups/depth for each of those spots.  You've got Neto, Fletch, Rengifo, Adell, Moniak and perhaps some other young guys having proved themselves in the minors.  In other words, a lot of uncertainty.  Plus Ohoppe will likely have very little major league time under his belt.  

There will be plenty of options to mix and match all of those pieces together in the right way with depth, young guys, veterans etc.  So even if it's still questionable as to whether you hand the job to Adell next year, you can get other players to back him up as a capable replacement should it not go well.  

In other words, maybe it's a smaller step forward than we'd hope but justifies enough to keep trying to get him more PA the next year.  Or perhaps he does enough to make his trade value high enough that a team with a bit more patience really wants him.  

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52 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

And next year you lose Urshela and Renfroe.  Possibly Ohtani.  Who knows how Walsh and Fletcher are going to perform this year.  

So you'll need a possible SS, 1b, LF and DH plus backups/depth for each of those spots.  You've got Neto, Fletch, Rengifo, Adell, Moniak and perhaps some other young guys having proved themselves in the minors.  In other words, a lot of uncertainty.  Plus Ohoppe will likely have very little major league time under his belt.  

There will be plenty of options to mix and match all of those pieces together in the right way with depth, young guys, veterans etc.  So even if it's still questionable as to whether you hand the job to Adell next year, you can get other players to back him up as a capable replacement should it not go well.  

He’ll get his chance, he might make the team outright.  He doesn’t want to be depth.  With Marsh out of the way he was seeing a path forward and he been told (I’m guessing) by the organization that they had full faith in him.  Doesn’t look like that right now.

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32 minutes ago, Revad said:

He’ll get his chance, he might make the team outright.  He doesn’t want to be depth.  With Marsh out of the way he was seeing a path forward and he been told (I’m guessing) by the organization that they had full faith in him.  Doesn’t look like that right now.

He's not gonna make the team out of spring unless there's an injury.  I don't give two squats what he wants.  He gets the job that his performance dictates.  There was a path for him but he tripped and fell.  And they probably do have faith in him but if he thinks he's earned a roster spot at this point then he's delusional.  And my guess is that if anyone shot sunshine up hit butt it was the previous regime.    

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20 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

Not a fan of the long stride. Makes him susceptable to changeups and breaking balls. Would prefer a lift and place of the left leg. Would keep his center of gravity from moving forward too much too soon. Would help his leverage and sightline, and balance. And possibly keep his body in a loaded position a fraction longer when he might pickup a change or breaking pitch.

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33 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Not a fan of the long stride. Makes him susceptable to changeups and breaking balls. Would prefer a lift and place of the left leg. Would keep his center of gravity from moving forward too much too soon. Would help his leverage and sightline, and balance. And possibly keep his body in a loaded position a fraction longer when he might pickup a change or breaking pitch.

Length of stride is only an issue if you're having to drop your leg too early and not being able to finish -- that wasn't an issue on that swing.  His front foot is down and planted when he makes contact, no up and down BS, no back-coil -- all of which have been problematic for him..  Striding or overstriding is an issue if you're not keeping your load back -- we can't see any of that in that video.  He's also keeping it linear, he's not turning as he strides which would make him vulnerable to anything inside or giving the pitcher any visible clues to exploit.

Honestly every batting coach I ever worked under including Rod Carew preached a stride of at least 2-2.5 times my core/hips unless the pitcher was working me inside at which point it was still about keeping the load back and dropping the front foot -- he seems to be right around that.

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7 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yea it’s a shitty situation for Adell as it relates to the Angels. He can figure it out this year in AAA but how does the team give him the big league job next year?  It’ll be perceived as a position of need going into next years free agency. If Ohtani leaves then at least you have two spots.  

if adell is crushing in AAA, then he won't have to worry about finding a spot. he'll get a call up at some point for a variety of reasons and if he continues to show he's ready, then they'll find a way for him to play.

the angels FO is just like us, they'd prefer for adell to be good. 

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1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

What is Adell's trade value like in June if he plays exclusively in AAA for 3 months but has 20 HR, .800 OPS, and plays average defense? Is that enough to make some teams believe he's turned a corner? 

An .800 OPS in the PCL is roughly league-average.  If he has 20 HR after ~80 games, he'd have to be hitting/getting on base terribly otherwise to only have an .800 OPS.

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2 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

What is Adell's trade value like in June if he plays exclusively in AAA for 3 months but has 20 HR, .800 OPS, and plays average defense? Is that enough to make some teams believe he's turned a corner? 

It depends on what his contact and chase rates look like.

If he has improved his contact rates while lowering his chase rates, there will probably be at least a few teams who believe he’s turned a corner.

MLB front offices, with a few exceptions (cough, cough Rockies), are advanced enough that they’ll look beyond HR’s and OPS.

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3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

An .800 OPS in the PCL is roughly league-average.  If he has 20 HR after ~80 games, he'd have to be hitting/getting on base terribly otherwise to only have an .800 OPS.

 

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

It depends on what his contact and chase rates look like.

If he has improved his contact rates while lowering his chase rates, there will probably be at least a few teams who believe he’s turned a corner.

MLB front offices, with a few exceptions (cough, cough Rockies), are advanced enough that they’ll look beyond HR’s and OPS.

Fine call it .900. My point is that based on his talents and who he is, if he is slugging like that and has a respectable enough OBP (.330 - .350?), does his trade value come back? He's always going to have a lot of swing and miss in his game--heck Trout and Ohtani do. To me it's about working through to to also see the benefits of that type of approach--XBH. 

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10 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

Fine call it .900. My point is that based on his talents and who he is, if he is slugging like that and has a respectable enough OBP (.330 - .350?), does his trade value come back? He's always going to have a lot of swing and miss in his game--heck Trout and Ohtani do. To me it's about working through to to also see the benefits of that type of approach--XBH. 

I don’t think any amount of AAA success can bring his trade value back to what it was ahead of the 2020 season.

Could it bring it back to what it was after the 2020 or 2021 season? Probably not, but closer.

In your outlined scenario, his trade value is above Moniak at the 2022 deadline, but maybe around a top 100 prospect?

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5 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

He's not gonna make the team out of spring unless there's an injury.  I don't give two squats what he wants.  He gets the job that his performance dictates.  There was a path for him but he tripped and fell.  And they probably do have faith in him but if he thinks he's earned a roster spot at this point then he's delusional.  And my guess is that if anyone shot sunshine up hit butt it was the previous regime.    

I hate to say this twice in one day, but I agree.

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41 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I don’t think any amount of AAA success can bring his trade value back to what it was ahead of the 2020 season.

Could it bring it back to what it was after the 2020 or 2021 season? Probably not, but closer.

In your outlined scenario, his trade value is above Moniak at the 2022 deadline, but maybe around a top 100 prospect?

Yeah I’m really just looking for him to be a trade asset again. Gives the team more options. One of which is to hang onto him for 2024 of course. 

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