Last time we missed out on the "big 4"

[Erstad Grit]

In the 2015 offseason we needed an outfielder. Cespedes, Upton, Gordon, and Heyward were available. Many fans including me were screaming for us to get one of them. We missed out on all of them.

What can we learn? 

Cespedes signed a 3/75 deal with the Mets. He had and incredible first year, opted out, and then signed a 4/110 with the Mets. He finished having one great season with the Mets before injuries essentially ended his career. 

Upton signed a 6/132 contract with Tigers. He played very well on Tigers before they ...well you know the rest.

Gordon signed a 4/72 with the Royals and played mediocre to just plain terrible. 

Heyward signed a disastrous 8/184 with the Cubs. 

The Angels platoon plan of Nava/Gentry was an incredible poorly executed plan 

Looking back 3 of the 4 outfielders would have been really bad, but our plan while cheaper was a giant mistake as well. 

I think these 4 SS are more elite than those outfielders, but I guess I'm feeling I hope we have a legitimate back-up plan if we don't land one. 

[Blarg]

I really don't think they are in on any high dollar, soon to defensively decline, Shortstops. 

[jordan]

Very good post. I agree, a back up plan is needed. I don’t want to go into the season with the SS position moving around between Fletch, Rengifo, Soto, Vasquez, etc. The position needs to be filled by someone we can just sit and forget about so to speak. Swanson is better than what some think here. That’s my pick. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by jordan

[BTH]

I don’t think these players are comparable to this SS class.

Swanson, sure.

But Correa, Turner, and Bogaerts are elite players, not merely above average or all-star players like the ones listed above.

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

I don’t think these players are comparable to this SS class.

Swanson, sure.

But Correa, Turner, and Bogaerts are elite players, not merely above average or all-star players like the ones listed above.

They aren't,  but don't let time convince you those outfielders weren't considered very highly at the time. 

[Second Base]

In many ways, this market is worse. Outfielders tend to age better than shortstops. Shortstops after age 30 tend to plummet in value on both sides of the ball. Whereas outfielders over 30 could be an ok investment in the right situation.

A corner outfielder that isn't relying on speed for success, is a decent defender playing in a smaller outfield with a good CF, that also has good power and discipline. 

Generally speaking, Heyward should've been a good investment. Cespedes' body was beat, Gordon was coming off career years and was overpaid as a result. Upton was exactly as expected. Good for like 2-3 years, then crashed. 

For this market, the best value you'll find I think is probably Mitch Haniger, but the Angels are already out of that market. 

But shortstops over 30, there really isn't a specific scenario that's a predicator of success. Having Fletcher healthy and a break out from Rengifo couldn't have gone at a better time.

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

In the 2015 offseason we needed an outfielder. Cespedes, Upton, Gordon, and Heyward were available. Many fans including me were screaming for us to get one of them. We missed out on all of them.

What can we learn? 

Cespedes signed a 3/75 deal with the Mets. He had and incredible first year, opted out, and then signed a 4/110 with the Mets. He finished having one great season with the Mets before injuries essentially ended his career. 

Upton signed a 6/132 contract with Tigers. He played very well on Tigers before they ...well you know the rest.

Gordon signed a 4/72 with the Royals and played mediocre to just plain terrible. 

Heyward signed a disastrous 8/184 with the Cubs. 

The Angels platoon plan of Nava/Gentry was an incredible poorly executed plan 

Looking back 3 of the 4 outfielders would have been really bad, but our plan while cheaper was a giant mistake as well. 

I think these 4 SS are more elite than those outfielders, but I guess I'm feeling I hope we have a legitimate back-up plan if we don't land one. 

I mean, you know, we don't even need to look at that 2015 class, do we?  We have already seen what happens when we sign star players to gigantic contracts - Pujols, Hamilton, Upton (traded for then extended), and likely now Rendon.  I just don't know how many more times we have to repeat this same process before we realize that it is not a particularly good one?

There are few players on mega deals that end up being worth their contract or even close to it.  Scherzer is one of the few in recent memory that I can recall who fits this description.

[notherhalo]

Beltre was the biggest miss for us

[Angels 1961]

Halos did get biggest prize of them all in Ohtani. He was at a great price and let's hope Angels can finally put a good team around him. Playing meaningful games in September in 2023.

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, notherhalo said:

Beltre was the biggest miss for us

Missing out on Beltre and then Vladdy Jr. are probably two of the top reasons the organization is in its current shape.

[Dtwncbad]

I openly admit I had enthusiasm for Heyward.  He was still young and he looked like he had more offensive upside coming.

Man was I wrong.

[Erstad Grit]

23 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I openly admit I had enthusiasm for Heyward.  He was still young and he looked like he had more offensive upside coming.

Man was I wrong.

Well I was excited about Josh Hamilton lol

[Dtwncbad]

12 hours ago, Taylor said:

Missing out on Beltre and then Vladdy Jr. are probably two of the top reasons the organization is in its current shape.

Beltre specifically is a “final score” missed opportunity that will forever be painful.

He was perfect.

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Beltre specifically is a “final score” missed opportunity that will forever be painful.

He was perfect.

It wasn't just missing Beltre....pivoting to Wells made it twice as bad....

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

It wasn't just missing Beltre....pivoting to Wells made it twice as bad....

Thanks for the knife twist.

Just going down memory lane, the other big free agent at the same time was Carl Crawford.  There were so many rumors the Angels were all over Crawford and I was panicking!!

I was going berserk thinking Beltre was the right choice over Crawford.

Crawford ended up being a brutally bad signing while Beltre then entrenched himself as a HOFer being a stable 5 WAR player every year.

So the Angels dodged a bullet on Crawford but it still sucks they didn’t land Beltre.

 

[notherhalo]

5 hours ago, DMVol said:

It wasn't just missing Beltre....pivoting to Wells made it twice as bad....

that was the end of the Angels dominance for decades to come 

I can still remember the headline "Angels release Napoli, sign Juan Rivera to 4 year 86 million dollar extension"

Sadly, signing JR to that extension would have been better

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:45 AM, Dtwncbad said:

Beltre specifically is a “final score” missed opportunity that will forever be painful.

He was perfect.

He was a great player at a position that the Angels patched together for years after Troy Glaus left.