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Fangraphs depth charts and rankings by position (worst bullpen and LF in baseball)


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On 11/20/2022 at 4:24 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Probably coached poorly, and a bit rushed (he barely played in AAA before being called up). But the complete lack of plate discipline implies some degree of self-generated suckage.

I still think he's going to be a good player, maybe very good - and certainly better than Adell will be.

I believe in the end they will both have good careers barring injury. 

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49 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I still hope they get a 4th OF upgrade on Adell/Moniak.

Those two are projected to provide only 0.4 combined WAR in 273 plate appearances.

While I agree, something to consider:  if we acquire a legit starting SS, then it could lead the following - new SS, then Fletcher to 2B full-time, and Rengifo shifts into the super utility role.  Rengifo can start some games in RF/LF.  Moreover, Urshela could start at 1B to some degree, and Walsh could get an occasional start in the OF as well.

So effectively - if we acquire a true SS, it could lead to a chain reaction such that we don't need either Adell or Moniak on the roster, due to the positional flexibility of some of our other players.  The only issue with this is having a backup CF, but Renfroe could serve in that capacity, I suppose, once a week or so as needed for Trout's days off.  If Trout gets hurt again, we're likely screwed anyway, but then in that instance, we could call up Moniak to serve as the CF.

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15 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

While I agree, something to consider:  if we acquire a legit starting SS, then it could lead the following - new SS, then Fletcher to 2B full-time, and Rengifo shifts into the super utility role.  Rengifo can start some games in RF/LF.  Moreover, Urshela could start at 1B to some degree, and Walsh could get an occasional start in the OF as well.

So effectively - if we acquire a true SS, it could lead to a chain reaction such that we don't need either Adell or Moniak on the roster, due to the positional flexibility of some of our other players.  The only issue with this is having a backup CF, but Renfroe could serve in that capacity, I suppose, once a week or so as needed for Trout's days off.  If Trout gets hurt again, we're likely screwed anyway, but then in that instance, we could call up Moniak to serve as the CF.

Good point, although I’m skeptical that they’ll add a starting SS since the market for mid-tier shortstops is pretty close to non-existent.

Ward can be a serviceable backup CF.


I think they could use one more non-catching position player to round out the group. With the flexibility you mentioned, that could be in the infield or outfield.

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2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Good point, although I’m skeptical that they’ll add a starting SS since the market for mid-tier shortstops is pretty close to non-existent.

Ward can be a serviceable backup CF.


I think they could use one more non-catching position player to round out the group. With the flexibility you mentioned, that could be in the infield or outfield.

I'm thinking they will acquire one via trade.  We've discussed a few names that could potentially fit.  Time will tell if any of those options come to fruition, but it would seem plausible at least.

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Even if it's not 100% accurate, the new update clearly shows a depth gap in MIF.  So even if they don't sign a big name SS, I think some additional depth in that area would do wonders.  Clearly, we're not gonna give Urshela the lion's share of his at bats as a SS.  I would prefer a legit SS of course, but in the absence of that, someone could also spell at other spots.  

 

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On 11/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Docwaukee said:

and I lied about not knowing what it looked like last year.  I found it on the way back machine.  They had us projected for 43.6 WAR.  27.8 for position players and 15.8 for pitching.

where were you able to find this?

I tried searching the Internet, but couldn’t find it.

I’m interested in seeing what their individual projections of performance and playing time for each player looked like.

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10 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Even if it's not 100% accurate, the new update clearly shows a depth gap in MIF.  So even if they don't sign a big name SS, I think some additional depth in that area would do wonders.  Clearly, we're not gonna give Urshela the lion's share of his at bats as a SS.  I would prefer a legit SS of course, but in the absence of that, someone could also spell at other spots.  

 

Acquiring a legit SS effectively pushes Rengifo into the super utility role, and has Soto and Velazquez both as AAA depth to start the year.  Velazquez really should mainly be emergency depth, given how terrible he is offensively.  Adding one guy to the mix does a ton in terms of helping strengthen that position.

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1 hour ago, Trendon said:

where were you able to find this?

I tried searching the Internet, but couldn’t find it.

I’m interested in seeing what their individual projections of performance and playing time for each player looked like.

https://web.archive.org
 

type the url of a site and pick a date. It’s pretty cool. 

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19 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Acquiring a legit SS effectively pushes Rengifo  fletcher into the super utility role, and has Soto and Velazquez both as AAA depth to start the year.  Velazquez really should mainly be emergency depth, given how terrible he is offensively.  Adding one guy to the mix does a ton in terms of helping strengthen that position.

 

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15 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

 

In a lot of ways, super utility is just a term used these days to refer to positional versatility.  The super utility players end up playing just as much as the starters do.  Fletcher is most valuable starting at 2B, where his defense shines through.  Rengifo can probably get a multiple starts per week in the middle infield, then maybe once at 3B, and maybe once or twice in LF/RF.  Even in the super utility role, he'd basically be starting as much as a full-time starter.  

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45 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

In a lot of ways, super utility is just a term used these days to refer to positional versatility.  The super utility players end up playing just as much as the starters do.  Fletcher is most valuable starting at 2B, where his defense shines through.  Rengifo can probably get a multiple starts per week in the middle infield, then maybe once at 3B, and maybe once or twice in LF/RF.  Even in the super utility role, he'd basically be starting as much as a full-time starter.  

The team needs to find a way to keep Fletcher out of the lineup as much as possible

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1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

https://web.archive.org
 

type the url of a site and pick a date. It’s pretty cool. 

Comparing the 2022 and 2023 projections, the biggest difference is the bullpen.

Also, Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, Walsh, and Stassi all have significantly lower projections.

The total offensive projections are similar, but it’s more balanced rather than being tied up in the top 3-5.


League-wide, somehow there are a lot more teams with 40+ WAR projections despite very little offseason activity happening.

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8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

The best version of Fletcher at the plate is a guy who hits a lot of singles and a handful of doubles. He just doesn't have the power hitting to ever be a guy you want as any everyday player unless the first guy up is injured, needs a day off, or is replaced late game for defense. 

The best version of Fletcher also walks at an 8% clip instead of a 4% clip.

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On 11/19/2022 at 5:36 PM, Docwaukee said:

As always, take this with a grain of salt as they are just projections but it gives us a decent overall idea of where we're at relative to our peers and those specifically in the division.  Before you ask, I can't see what it looked like last year.  

One other thing to take not of is that Fangraphs apparently can't add.  When you click on the link and look in the various categories, you will notice that the totals don't add up to what they've got for the individual players.  

Overall as a team, the Angels are ranked 16th with an expected WAR of 39.2.  14th overall for batting/defense and 18th overall for pitching.  
Division
Astros 47.2
Mariners 44.4
Angels 39.2
Rangers 34.7
A's 29.9

C - 14th
1b - 27th
2b - 25th
SS - 28th
3b - 10th
LF - 30th
CF - 2nd
RF - 8th
DH - 3rd

SP - 7th
RP - 30th

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=1

So if you think we should get a SS or a LFer or a 1bman or more bullpen the good news is that YOU'RE CORRECT!

Looks like Perry saw this and took action.   No one wants to be a GM on the south side of the fangraphs ratings.

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45 minutes ago, Trendon said:

The best version of Fletcher also walks at an 8% clip instead of a 4% clip.

He did that for one season plus the short 2020. His other three seasons were sub-5%. I hope he exceeds it again, but at this point I'd bet on Rengifo having a higher walk rate than Fletch going forward. The only thing I'd guess he might beat Rengifo on is batting average, but I'm not even confident of that. Ideally both will play good enough to make it a tough decision. 

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8 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

The team needs to find a way to keep Fletcher out of the lineup as much as possible

 

8 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

The best version of Fletcher at the plate is a guy who hits a lot of singles and a handful of doubles. He just doesn't have the power hitting to ever be a guy you want as any everyday player unless the first guy up is injured, needs a day off, or is replaced late game for defense. 

I'm not really a super pro Fletcher guy, but I think he could be a pretty good 2B if he's healthy.  From 2018-2020, if projected over a full season, he was averaging 3 fWAR per season (would have been higher in 2020, but that was also somewhat of a fluke "season").  He performed rather poorly offensively in 2021 (injuries?), and the same held true in 2022.

Now that he has had surgery on his hips, maybe he can return back to being a 3 fWAR player over the full course of a season.  His defense creates a high floor for him in that even if he's performing poorly offensively, he will provide some value.

All that said, this is the benefit of acquiring a SS - if Fletcher struggles again offensively, he can be pushed to the bench and kept more as an occasional starter, with Rengifo taking over the full-time 2B duties instead of serving as a super utility player.  This is what the best teams do - they provide themselves with a litany of solid options in case of injuries and/or ineffectiveness.  Fletcher should start the season at 2B, IMO, but if he doesn't show signs of his 2018-2020 offensive performance, he should lose that job.

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4 hours ago, Warfarin said:

 

I'm not really a super pro Fletcher guy, but I think he could be a pretty good 2B if he's healthy.  From 2018-2020, if projected over a full season, he was averaging 3 fWAR per season (would have been higher in 2020, but that was also somewhat of a fluke "season").  He performed rather poorly offensively in 2021 (injuries?), and the same held true in 2022.

Now that he has had surgery on his hips, maybe he can return back to being a 3 fWAR player over the full course of a season.  His defense creates a high floor for him in that even if he's performing poorly offensively, he will provide some value.

All that said, this is the benefit of acquiring a SS - if Fletcher struggles again offensively, he can be pushed to the bench and kept more as an occasional starter, with Rengifo taking over the full-time 2B duties instead of serving as a super utility player.  This is what the best teams do - they provide themselves with a litany of solid options in case of injuries and/or ineffectiveness.  Fletcher should start the season at 2B, IMO, but if he doesn't show signs of his 2018-2020 offensive performance, he should lose that job.

I just don't see it with Fletcher. Either he's been figured out or he has regressed as a player, or both. For the season, with 228 PA's he managed a 75 wRC+ which earned him 0.7 war. You can point to him returning from injury but his last 62 PA's he managed just a 29 wRC+ so he got worse as the season went on. This just screams back up. Even if they don't sign a second basemen I probably don't start him as the team is currently constructed.

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Fletcher = why it’s critical to find the right one year SS stop gap until Neto and Soto are ready.

Someone who’s a better hitter than Fletcher and a little better defensively too.

Fletcher ideally is a MIF utility guy getting maybe 40-50 starts a seasons tops.   Just a shame they’re paying him $5.2 million/season through 2025.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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