Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Stradling]

I wonder if there’s logic in giving free agents big money in year one and considerably less in the following years so the new owners are paying below market value when they take control of the team?  Let’s say it’s Boegarts and the contract is 6 years $150 million with year one being $35 million.  Or it’s Senga and most of the money comes in year one.  Just a thought.  

[TempeAngel]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I wonder if there’s logic in giving free agents big money in year one and considerably less in the following years so the new owners are paying below market value when they take control of the team?  Let’s say it’s Boegarts and the contract is 6 years $150 million with year one being $35 million.  Or it’s Senga and most of the money comes in year one.  Just a thought.  

Do you think their plan is to cross the luxury tax threshold this year?

[Stradling]

Just now, TempeAngel said:

Do you think their plan is to cross the luxury tax threshold this year?

I don’t know what their plan is. He very well could since he most likely will be gone by the time the tax comes due. 

[Warfarin]

28 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

again, I like the kid.  he's a nice little player and really this isn't even about him, but 'turned a corner' offensively resulted in a 104 wRC+ and a big part of that was his .345 BABIP.  And that was in AA after putting up a couple year of a wRC+ of about 70.  

He's potentially and future something perhaps.  If things were left as is, he'd be getting at least half a seasons worth of at bats.  And if he fails, who behind him?  All the rest of the crap that didn't work last year.  

Right - my comments weren't to suggest that we should ignore the MIF and roll with the current group, but rather just that we might have a useful MLB player in Soto that we didn't really previously anticipate.

I think with Neto, Soto, and Paris, we could actually have a pretty decent MIF pipeline now that isn't too far off, but we do need to bridge the gap for the next year at least, which I think we all agree on and hence the discussions about Rosario, Anderson, etc who can help bridge that gap.

By 2024, a quarter of Neto, Rengifo, Fletcher, and Soto should be pretty good.  I think Paris is probably about 2 years away or so, but he too had a pretty significant leap in development the last year.

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

Do you think their plan is to cross the luxury tax threshold this year?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it would be stunning to me if Moreno went past the luxury tax this offseason.  I would anticipate the next owner would want to do this, and given the structure of the MLB tax penalties, where it gets progressively worse each year a team goes above it, I would expect the next owner would want to have a "clean slate" in terms of this.

The Dodgers, for example, seem to go above a few years, then have a "reset" year where they go back below, then go back above a few years, and so on and so forth.  I am hopeful the new Angel owners will follow a similar tactic, and go above the luxury tax the first few years after taking over.

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

I think with Neto, Soto, and Paris, we could actually have a pretty decent MIF pipeline now that isn't too far off

I disagree with this.

Neto just came out of college, Soto had one slightly above average offensive season, and Paris has major K% issues.

 

I don’t mean to single out you in particular when I say this, but I think a lot of fans delude themselves into thinking every prospect is going to work out.

I’ve seen people suggest the Angels middle infield is a strength in the farm system. In terms of quantity of players? Sure. In terms of quality? No idea.

Except for Neto, all of the Angels middle infield prospects have major deficiencies that very likely results in them being busts.

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I disagree with this.

Neto just came out of college, Soto had one slightly above average offensive season, and Paris has major K% issues.

 

I don’t mean to single out you in particular when I say this, but I think a lot of fans delude themselves into thinking every prospect is going to work out.

I’ve seen people suggest the Angels middle infield is a strength in the farm system. In terms of quantity of players? Sure. In terms of quality? No idea.

Except for Neto, all of the Angels middle infield prospects have major deficiencies that very likely results in them being busts.

"Decent" pipeline is meant to suggest just that - some decent players, not all-stars.

I am somewhat heartened by improvements in plate discipline.  Paris had a pretty decent improvement in both his BB% and K% mid-season if you look at his splits, and that continued into AA.  He, too, had a rather unsustainable run in AA, but the improvement was nevertheless noted.

I think the promise, in terms of the middle infielders, is that they are actually showing some promise in the upper levels.  

I think Soto, though, has a high floor and likely won't bust out in that he probably at least can be an up-and-down backup infielder in the same way Velazquez is.  Not a great player, but should still play some kind of role if things don't pan out.

As for the "strength" part - that is likely by default, as most other parts of the Angels' farm system is rather lackluster.  SP has some options, and we now have 2 catching prospects thanks to Minasian's trade, but otherwise there is not too much in the immediate horizon in terms of 3B/1B and OF.

[Angels 1961]

35 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it would be stunning to me if Moreno went past the luxury tax this offseason.  I would anticipate the next owner would want to do this, and given the structure of the MLB tax penalties, where it gets progressively worse each year a team goes above it, I would expect the next owner would want to have a "clean slate" in terms of this.

The Dodgers, for example, seem to go above a few years, then have a "reset" year where they go back below, then go back above a few years, and so on and so forth.  I am hopeful the new Angel owners will follow a similar tactic, and go above the luxury tax the first few years after taking over.

I don't care if they go over lux tax but make smart moves. Look at ATL and how they have built a team that will be in playoff hunt for many years. Need to build a strong farm system. Dodgers trade away top prospects every year and still have a top minor system.

[Angelsfan1984]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

calling hurt players pussies is so lame. there's just no explaining it to people who say such dumb shit about the best players in the world.

2 out of 10 response. That’s a fail. Try again. 

[Redondo]

37 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

 Need to build a strong farm system. Dodgers trade away top prospects every year and still have a top minor system.

This

[Jason]

2 hours ago, ukyah said:

calling hurt players pussies is so lame. there's just no explaining it to people who say such dumb shit about the best players in the world.

Calling them a pussy unfair but all players are different and some have bodies that just aren't built to withstand the strain of playing professional level sports. Nothing the best trainers in the world can do to improve that. I know many of us get down on Trout for being hurt so much but he has been playing MLB his entire adult life. That's some heavy stress on the body. He also plays very hard

Edited November 28, 2022 by Jason

[Stradling]

Yep.  Regular dudes calling out professional athletes for being injured is pretty dumb. Those dudes act like the players would rather be injured than play the game they competed at their entire lives. I’m sure Rendon would rather have surgery than play. 

[Angel Oracle]

17 minutes ago, Jason said:

Calling them a pussy unfair but all players are different and some have bodies that just aren't built to withstand the strain of playing professional level sports. Nothing the best trainers in the world can do to improve that. I know many of us get down on Trout for being hurt so much but he has been playing MLB his entire adult life. That's some heavy stress on the body. He also plays very hard

Exhibit A in NBA is Anthony Davis.

Grade A talent but not the Grade A durability to get though playing even 60 games in a regular season.

[tdawg87]

[tdawg87]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Btw this is a self-own because I have often called players "pussies" and am also fat.

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Exhibit A in NBA is Anthony Davis.

Grade A talent but not the Grade A durability to get though playing even 60 games in a regular season.

It happens in every sport. How NFL players don't get hurt more often then they do is quite remarkable

[angelsnationtalk]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I don’t know what their plan is. He very well could since he most likely will be gone by the time the tax comes due. 

This is a good point. 
Let's also say the sale if official halfway into the season. Like June. 
Doesn't this mean the new owner will only pay for half the season + tax while Arte pays for the first 3 months? 

Can someone clarify this for me?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

This is a good point. 
Let's also say the sale if official halfway into the season. Like June. 
Doesn't this mean the new owner will only pay for half the season + tax while Arte pays for the first 3 months? 

Can someone clarify this for me?

If you sell your house,do you have to pay a portion of the property taxes when they come due?

[Angels 1961]

3 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

This is a good point. 
Let's also say the sale if official halfway into the season. Like June. 
Doesn't this mean the new owner will only pay for half the season + tax while Arte pays for the first 3 months? 

Can someone clarify this for me?

Depends on what is in final sale contract.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

If you sell your house,do you have to pay a portion of the property taxes when they come due?

Let me ask my ex-wife she got the house

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

2 out of 10 response. That’s a fail. Try again. 

oh dang. i'll pass.

[Warfarin]

39 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

This is a good point. 
Let's also say the sale if official halfway into the season. Like June. 
Doesn't this mean the new owner will only pay for half the season + tax while Arte pays for the first 3 months? 

Can someone clarify this for me?

I'm not entirely positive, but likely the tax that is due is somewhat moot.  I think for owners, they want to avoid being repeat offenders, given how the penalty increases depending on how many consecutive years you are above it.

I am guessing Arte will aim to be below it.  It is likely not the most important point, but for someone who has always strived to stay below, I don't see why he'd go above it now.  Also, the moves that have been made so far (mainly acquiring guys on expiring contracts at reasonable costs) likely indicates the plan to not significantly increase payroll.

[Jason]

36 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Let me ask my ex-wife she got the house

 

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I don't care if they go over lux tax but make smart moves. Look at ATL and how they have built a team that will be in playoff hunt for many years. Need to build a strong farm system. Dodgers trade away top prospects every year and still have a top minor system.

The Dodgers are the best run organization in the sport and the benchmark of what most aspire to achieve.  They are excellent at drafting and developing talent, and also of knowing which talent to trade and which talent to keep.  They seem to trade away prospects that are good but regular players, and manage to keep the ones who develop into stars.

I don't know the financials, but it seems they invest a ton into scouting, analytics, scouting, etc.  

[Angels 1961]

30 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

The Dodgers are the best run organization in the sport and the benchmark of what most aspire to achieve.  They are excellent at drafting and developing talent, and also of knowing which talent to trade and which talent to keep.  They seem to trade away prospects that are good but regular players, and manage to keep the ones who develop into stars.

I don't know the financials, but it seems they invest a ton into scouting, analytics, scouting, etc.  

I agree best run organization that will spend money. Seems like money spent goes in right places. With all that said no WS Championship since 1988