Lose with Ohtani or Win without Ohtani

[Stradling]

31 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Once again, you've been proven wrong. The name calling shows how mature you are. You are wrong so much. I guess you get off on it. I was starting to feel bad for how many times you've been wrong but I don't anymore. I should have bet you money years ago. You're also wrong in your response to Cals. I've stated over and over that I'm team first. I wouldn't think twice about getting rid of Trout if it meant the Angels would win a World Series and same goes for Ohtani. Winning is more important than any player. You care more about the player though(you want Trout on the Angels for his whole career even if it means no WS) but you'd get rid of Ohtani.

Wrong?  I asked you to show me one. You showed me swords who literally told me to change the thread. Oh and Cals originally voted yes, but then thought it would be funny to be that guy. 

[Stradling]

And yes I own my opinion from four years ago. 

[OttoDog]

14 minutes ago, cals said:

I vote for RUSH.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, gotbeer said:

Win with Ohtani and Trout.   

I think there's something to be said here that goes overlooked....

 

And that's that you didn't include Rendon

Not sure how Manu realize this, but over the next 4 years Rendon is costing us more than Trout....

And not trying to sound like a dick, because I like the guy.... but I have zero confidence he'll ever come halfway close to worth the 38 million we owe him the next 4 years.....

And Trout isn't getting any younger, and recently is becoming a huge question mark.....

I just don't see any hope unless you flip Ohtani, as much as I want to.

[Swordsman78]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Only a moron would chose that. 

If you are going to disparage someone, at least get your slur correct.   This is the Angelswin.com forum and according to one of the senior members, the slur is spelled as below.

  On 8/2/2022 at 4:31 PM, eligrba said:

Needing a shortstop and an outfielder is not new. He had options for both last off season and chose poorly. Minasian is a moran.

[tdawg87]

Whooosh.

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Whooosh.

He’s kind of that guy. 

[beatlesrule]

I find it odd that it's okay for people to choose Trout over a WS but when someone chooses Ohtani who does things Trout never has or ever will, it's looked down on.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

1 hour ago, cals said:

Even without COVID, 2020 sucked taking away the best drummer and guitarist.  I got to see Alex and Geddy get their star in Hollywood with Billy Corgan giving the induction speech.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[BTH]

Win without Ohtani.

No debate whatsoever, for me.

I root for the name on the front of the jersey, "Angels" more than anything.

I can still enjoy Ohtani's talent as a baseball fan if he's on another team.

 

The upsetting thing is I'll probably have to enjoy Ohtani's talent as a baseball fan when he's on the Dodgers or Mariners while the Angels still continue to lose.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

Arte might

Arte's choice of Ohtani isn't "lose with Ohtani," it's "lose with Ohtani but make millions of dollars off of his presence."

[cals]

1 minute ago, Trendon said:

Arte's choice of Ohtani isn't "lose with Ohtani," it's "lose with Ohtani but make millions of dollars off of his presence."

Basically.  But ultimately it’s Lose With Ohtani because as ridiculous as it seems, it does feel like Moreno hasn’t equated winning with profit.  And I don’t know, I haven’t looked at their books.  They’ve had winning years under Moreno.  But maybe him and the Beer Baron (Kuhl) ran the numbers and decided our dumbass fan base wants big names and mediocrity over winning with Scott Spiezios and Ben Webers.

[ten ocho recon scout]

23 minutes ago, cals said:

But maybe him and the Beer Baron (Kuhl) ran the numbers and decided our dumbass fan base wants big names and mediocrity over winning with Scott Spiezios and Ben Webers.

I think that this is literally it.

Last year when the rumors (assuming they're true) were raging that we were a finalist on Scherzer, that became clear.

I think Artes whole vibe is that he'll spend tons and tons of money on names. He wants to win, and wants good players, but I think he's only open to spending if it's someone really popular. Someone you can market.

And for all I know, it's not about him making money. But more him, not following things near as much as baseball nerds, going "I know that guy! He's good! Sign him!" (Not even thinking about age, how it effects things later, etc)

I honestly think his heart is in the right place. I think he's a huge fan and really wants to win. I just think he's not in a position to know how.

And no matter how rich you are, when you're writing checks for 100 million plus, you probably feel more comfortable spending on a brand name.

Edited August 6, 2022 by ten ocho recon scout

[notherhalo]

We could have seen him wreck the Dodgers as SDP, now we will get to see him as a Dodger in '24 wrecking us a few games a year

Hell probably toss a no hitter against us

[Swordsman78]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Win without Ohtani.

No debate whatsoever, for me.

I root for the name on the front of the jersey, "Angels" more than anything.

I can still enjoy Ohtani's talent as a baseball fan if he's on another team.

 

The upsetting thing is I'll probably have to enjoy Ohtani's talent as a baseball fan when he's on the Dodgers or Mariners while the Angels still continue to lose.

The Red Sox choice was to win without Ruth.   How did that work out for them?

[cals]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

The Red Sox choice was to win without Ruth.   How did that work out for them?

You know this isn’t the same.  And I don’t think that was actually their choice.  If memory serves me correct to Sox owner sold Ruth to fund a musical.  

So unless Moreno has a production of Hello Dolly we don’t know about ( @Taylors ears just perked up), the situation is obviously much different (as tempting as it is to make that comparison).

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, cals said:

You know this isn’t the same.  And I don’t think that was actually their choice.  If memory serves me correct to Sox owner sold Ruth to fund a musical.  

So unless Moreno has a production of Hello Dolly we don’t know about ( @Taylors ears just perked up), the situation is obviously much different (as tempting as it is to make that comparison).

Hello Tamale?

[tomsred]

The question should be simply:  "Attempt to sign Ohtani to an extension", or "Don't sign Ohtani to an extension, trade him for the best available package".  The problem is we don't know the makeup of the team around him yet for 2023.

[Docwaukee]

win with Ohtani.  

am I doing this right?  

[Wisconsin27]

Give the makeup of our current roster and knowing Arte won't go over his budget......ever; I want no part of extending him.   We ALWAYS pay for past performance........pick a player.

Mike had to be done and I celebrated.  S.O. will be 30 at the time of his next 8+ year deal.   When are we going to learn!?!

 

[arch stanton]

4 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Hello Tamale?

Best Little Whorehouse in Tustin

[yk9001]

4 hours ago, tomsred said:

 The problem is we don't know the makeup of the team around him yet for 2023.

The team will have stints of Trout and Rendon on the injured list.  That we do know.

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

win with Ohtani.  

am I doing this right?  

Not in this thread you aren’t. 

[thebloob]

When you connect it to the trout thread a similar question is that if you could go back in time seeing what the last 4-5 years have brought would you trade Trout?  There’s no guarantee they would be better but that couldn’t have been worse. A lot of talk is about lack of depth and depth comes from the minors, the angels may have been able to restock the minors back then by trading him. I still think the angels can get a haul in the off season of even a couple good pieces next year if they are losing.  I worry most about an injury making him lose all value.