Would you trade Howie Kendrick at the Trade Deadline?

[Lou E Ville]

Let's trade him to the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera.....too late.

[Mark68]

There is no fallacy. It's a completely different human being who weren't given the same strengths and weaknesses.

It IS a fallacy, because you made a blanket statement that Howie's never hit .260, which implies that he won't do so ever.

 

It has nothing to do with them being separate human beings. Your statement implies that because something has never happened before, it can't ever happen. I proved that it can.

[Mark68]

Pitching is a huge issue for this team, and it's going to take a lot of trades to do it because fans are not willing to wait for true rebuilding/restocking to happen.  

 

It's like idiots on the Mariners board talking about holding onto a closer like Willhelmsen...one idiot said "don't  trade him, he's our best closer!," which is true, but he's on a team that's way below .500 and not looking to contend for a long time.  What need does a rebuilding team have for a closer?

 

Time for Angels fans to start asking the same hard questions about some of their favorites.  

We're losing with Howie, we can still lose without him.

[Tyler]

Howie has been an extremely high contact guy his whole career. It's why some people designated him as a 'future batting title champ' in his prospect days.

[Tyler]

Brad Miller. Him or Franklin will man 2nd.

[mtangelsfan]

I don't agree with the name calling stuff mark, but you didn't "prove" it could.  You proved it could happen to somebody, not Howie, which was what Shane said.  Now if he said no player would hit .260 who never had before, that would make sense.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Personally, I'm going back and forth on this. Out of all of our tradeable players, Howie may bring the most return in a trade. disagree slightly chuck. Imo, trumbo brings the most back.

Do I want to trade either? No. Do I think its the right move? Hate to say it, but yes. Both are good players. Both can bring good returns. The queation is, can this team win? Can it win next year? If it doesn't look like it will.....why hold on to good players?

Having good players on mediocre teams isn't the smart way to go, IMO. It would be fun to watch trumbo hit 40 one of these years, but better to see a winning team.

Again, the fan in me wants to keep both. But my (little) brain says different. We envy texas, but they sucked for years (with good players). A big turning point for them was trading tex, pissing off fans, and getting a return that paid off 2 years later.

The shit part is losing guys who are liked and producing due to pujols and hamilton, who were supposed to be the foundation.

Consider this: Taylor Lindsey is very Howie Kendrick-ish already, but a lefthanded version.

I currently have Lindsey ranked #1 in our mid-season prospect list.

In a tough league to hit for power, Lindsey has put up a .807 OPS. 10 HR's, 13 2B's, 2 3B's and a solid 24/37 walk/k rate.

Consider this. Trumbo hit just 15 HR's a year before he smashed 36 in AAA, while Trout hit just 11 in AA Arkansas.

[Mark68]

I don't agree with the name calling stuff mark, but you didn't "prove" it could.  You proved it could happen to somebody, not Howie, which was what Shane said.  Now if he said no player would hit .260 who never had before, that would make sense.

Just because Howie has never hit as low as .260 does not make it impossible for him to do so, correct? Maybe that doesn't "prove" anything because one can't "prove" a negative, but the assertion that just because he's never hit as low as that does not mean that it will never happen. It just means that it hasn't happened to this point. Maybe it never does, but he certainly cannot definitively say that it's an impossibility, which was his implication.

 

Howie has had stretches where he's been much worse than .260. Certainly never for a full year, but one can reason that if it happens for "x" period of time, there's no proof that "x" will never equal a full year.

 

For what it's worth, over a full season, Howie has never hit .332 either. That doesn't mean he can't or won't.

[Brent Maguire]

I'd be ecstatic if this is the real Howie. I have no idea if it is or not but he's been pretty consistent as a .280/.330/.420 type guy who can provide good defense, which is a valuable commodity. I've thought this over and still don't know what the right way to go would be. 

 

His value will most likely be through the roof come the trade deadline. This team needs minor league depth big time. It almost seems like trading him is too logical but I've liked Howie for a while now. Many people underrate him because of his flaws that tend to annoy you. He's still a very solid and consistent player, and could possibly be breaking out now. It is in his prime year, as LT and others said, but he has had a lot of AB at this level to figure it out. 

 

Interested to see what Dipoto does. 

[T.G.]

I can see it now... IF the Angels were to trade Howie, they'd go out and sign Robinson Cano for some outrageous contract.   No thank you.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Pitching is a huge issue for this team, and it's going to take a lot of trades to do it because fans are not willing to wait for true rebuilding/restocking to happen.

It's like idiots on the Mariners board talking about holding onto a closer like Willhelmsen...one idiot said "don't trade him, he's our best closer!," which is true, but he's on a team that's way below .500 and not looking to contend for a long time. What need does a rebuilding team have for a closer?

Time for Angels fans to start asking the same hard questions about some of their favorites.

exactly.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I can see it now... IF the Angels were to trade Howie, they'd go out and sign Robinson Cano for some outrageous contract. No thank you.

I mostly gree with this. That said (and I'm not suggesting this), trading howie (or trumbo), getting back a handful of guys that can priduce in 2-3 years while spending money on a replavement isn't so much worse of an idea than holding on to these guys, gambling on our shit drafts the last few years (in 2-3 years) and having to spend money on someone other than a cano.

[eaterfan]

We're losing with Howie, we can still lose without him.

We'll probably be even better at it!

[Mark68]

A couple things: I like Howie and would like him to be an Angel for life. However, I like the Angels more than any individual player on the team, and if it makes sense to trade an individual player at a high point where he would net a significant return that is likely to make the team better in the long run, then that trade should be made.

 

I'm not saying trade him for anything, I'm saying trade him for as much as possible. And right now, that would be a pretty good haul. This team will not make the playoffs this year, nor is it likely to for the next couple of years. It needs to get some depth, and to get younger, so that in a couple of years, we can see that, yes, this team is going places.

 

It's what the Mets are in the midst of. As soon as next year, they could have the top 1-2 punch in their starting rotation with Harvey/Wheeler. They had to trade Beltran to get Wheeler. Then they locked up Wright long-term, even though they are still paying a heavy price for Santana. This is the direction that we should be heading toward.

[Chuck]

That's incorrect.  

 

Ackley is being converted to outfield.  Triunfel has not shown himself to be anything beyond a decent utility player.  Franklin is the only 2B the Mariners have right now, and they want to move him to SS soon.  

 

He would be the perfect acquisition for the Mariners, no matter how little you understand it.

 

Angels needs starting pitching, and M's have lots of it that may be MLB ready within the next year.  

 

I'm not saying that anything will happen, but it makes sense if you take your own preferences out of it.  

 

 

Franklin and Miller will be your double play combo for years. Ackley has changed his approach and is killing it in AAA in CF. 

[ukyah]

i voted yes, but with the caveat that this team should be blowing up the roster. it does little good to move one player. this team needs an enema, and what better city to get one than orange county?

[2002_halos_II]

Not 4 prospects.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Agreed with Mark. Its not that we want to trade producers just to dump salary. And Its important to be a fan of the team other than a fan of individuals.

I already mentioned tex, mark mentioned beltran. You can either buy through FA, draft well.....or trade.

Were already expensive, and I'm unaware of any pending stud FA's. Our drafts have been poor the last few years. What's left (to improve this team)?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Not 4 prospects.

then for what?

Only a trout trade would bring back what we need to win today, and that's not gonna happen.

This team needs to get younger and more affordable.

[WallyWorld]

yes YES OH GOD YES

[WallyWorld]

Trading HK would be silly.

 

Um, doesn't that depend on who we get back?  People believing the current Howie is the real Howie, that's silly.

[tdawg87]

It's a hard concept to get used to, but the idea of trading Kendrick isn't to make the team better now.

[Inside Pitch]

Not a chance...

 

 

LeMahieu played in tougher hitting environments than Lindsey did before this season and even at AA, he was in the tougher league to hit in.  If you park adjust they are very similar hitters, albeit he was a year older than Lindsey has been.   I see more in common there than with Kendrick, but I would argue that Lindsey is trending in a very good direction.

 

DJ isn't a bad player.  Looking at raw OPS figures, Lindsey's career OPS of .806, seems much more in line with DJ's .770 than it does Kendrick's .972

[Scott34]

tdawg is on fire in this thread.

[Inside Pitch]

 

In a tough league to hit for power, Lindsey has put up a .807 OPS. 10 HR's, 13 2B's, 2 3B's and a solid 24/37 walk/k rate.

Consider this. Trumbo hit just 15 HR's a year before he smashed 36 in AAA, while Trout hit just 11 in AA Arkansas.

 

 

It's not really a tough league to hit in, it's actually the 4th best hitters league in the minors..  it's  just got some tough parks to hit in.   The HR index in Arkansas has a 30 point difference between Lefties and RHBs...  So, it's not just as simple as look at counting stats.

 

Team R/G H/G HR/G PF-R

N.A. 10.86 19.00 1.90 1.132

Spr 10.09 18.14 2.35 1.019

Mid 9.95 19.19 1.12 1.023

CC 9.39 17.97 1.76 1.023

Fri 8.98 17.20 1.77 0.994

Tul 8.75 16.98 2.01 0.995

S.A. 8.29 16.70 1.21 0.928

Ark 7.67 15.64 1.00 0.902

 

Springfield, the number two park in terms of league offense is also the 6th best HR park in the entirety of MiLB