Alex Torres = ouch

[Angel Oracle]

16 innings so far for the Rays out of the pen in 2013 =

3 hits, 0 runs, 23/3 Ks/BBs ratio

 

 

F'n Reagins

[Mudville]

You are the king of spilt milk.

[Angel Oracle]

Someone has to be.

Doesn't mean I can't be happy for him, because he is a potentially really solid pitcher.

Just wish more of these trades/acquisitions wouldn't be backfiring so much over the past 3-4 years.

 

Plus, and this is a critical one, how many other orgs trade away so many highly ranked in the org lefty pitching prospects over a 3 year period?

Corbin, Skaggs, Torres, Will Smith, etc.

Aren't lefty pitchers just about the most highly coveted players in MLB? 

 

Fortunately, they landed Vargas although it took trading Morales (although a pretty solid trade now in hindsight).

 

Anyway, if Hunter Green and Jonah Wesely do pan out 5 years down the road, that helps some to make up for trading away Corbin, Torres, and Skaggs.

[Jimmag]

Pitching and players coming through our farm system was our MO back when we were perennial post season players. Having Bud Black was also a plus. 

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

Very impressive.

[Brent Maguire]

Wow his numbers are SICK. 

[Tank]

Eh, it's the risk you take in making trades.

If Kazmir pitches for the halos like he was capable of doing, we don't have this conversation.

[DropOfAnaheim]

Some of our posters should become Red Sucks fans, where complaining is a way of life, and no amount of success quenches the thirst for bitching and moaning.

[gotbeer]

If we didn't make the trade, then at the time the same posters would be bitching about not making moves.  It's a no win situation, and probably the reason why players and management probably give 2 rats ass what is posted on a message board.  

[Docwaukee]

AO - I know you remember what the state of the team was when made this trade.  We had one of Matt Palmer, Trevor Bell, Shane Loux, and Sean O'Sullivan in the rotation. 

 

Kazmir was actually solid for us over the last couple of months.  We would have made the playoffs anyway, but the move was smart.

He wasn't good in the playoffs, and that was the beginning of the end for him. 

 

The player failed, not the move. 

[Angel Oracle]

I guess I'm looking at it as a collective thing.

By itself, trading Torres doesn't look horrible.

But when lumped with the other trades/acquisitions since 2009, it all adds up.

[Tyler]

It does seem like we trade or sign players that fall.off dramatically after they put on an Angels uniform. Pretty annoying.

[Mudville]

Yeah, Vargas has been a complete bust so far.

[Tyler]

Yeah, we got a little bit of Dan Haren too before he fell off.

[Angel Oracle]

I'd hardly quantify one pitcher for 2.5 months so far, and Haren for 1.5 seasons, as an overall success acquisitions wise in any way, not when so many others have blown up in our faces over the past 4 years. 

 

But I will say that if not for Vargas, this off season would be graded a big fat FFFFFFFFF!

[SigBaby]

How about you guys check out Torres' minor league numbers before raving about his 16 innings in the bigs this year. He has like a career 4 bb/9. He has great stuff, but the command is a fluke

[Tyler]

I'm well aware of Torres and what he was projected to be when he was in our organization. He's always been a great fastball and filthy slider guy. I'm not one to say what could have been, but I'll do it this once and be done; Stud left-handed starting pitchers who throw 93+ are rare and this team could have had Skaggs, Corbin, and Torres. Nasty.

 

I just hope that we take up the philosophy of selling our veteran free-agent-to-be's for prospects instead of selling our prospects for veterans, even if we're trying to win now. Obviously we're not the Rays and A's of the world where we have cheap owners, but it would be wise to sell high instead of buy high all the tim.

[Angel Oracle]

If Arte was an investment advisor, I'd never use him for that reason (buying high syndrome).

[Second Base]

I agree with Dochalo here.  If Kazmir was what he was supposed to be (staff ace or quality #2 SP under control for 2.5 more years at 12mil bargain), paying the price of Sean Rodriguez and Alex Torres would've been an absolute steal for this team.  But the player failed, not the deal.  

 

If anything, I'd have to question the Angels scouting at the time of the move.  I firmly believe it was some of the worst in baseball.  They not only failed to properly evaluate Kazmir when other teams knew what they had, they failed to properly evaluate their own personnel.  

 

But still, I don't blame Reagins for swinging that deal based on the information he was provided with. 

[Blarg]

Sean Rodriguez has been little more than a bench utility player.

[Inside Pitch]

If we didn't make the trade, then at the time the same posters would be bitching about not making moves.  It's a no win situation, and probably the reason why players and management probably give 2 rats ass what is posted on a message board.  

 

 

"Bill Stoneman wouldnt have made that trade"  Followed a month later by..  "BIll Stoneman sucked..  He never made trades"

[Inside Pitch]

How about you guys check out Torres' minor league numbers before raving about his 16 innings in the bigs this year. He has like a career 4 bb/9. He has great stuff, but the command is a fluke

 

How about you consider how the change of usage has made for a difference in his performance?  

 

Angels once had this smallish RHP from Venezuela.   Strong FB, dirty slider, but poor command made him a middling SP.   Then some smart guy made him a reliever..   BOOM.

 

Alex Torres is K-Rod 2.0.    Not saying he will enjoy the same success K-Rod did, but he's clearly following the same career path.