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Bobby Abreu HOFer?


Stradling

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24 minutes ago, Lou said:

In 1999, Gwynn was batting .338 at the break. He batted .412 with an ops of  1.073 the first month of the season. That's probably why he was selected. 

After that, he had injuries and didn't play in the ASG. 

He still was voted because of his reputation that year.

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10 hours ago, Taylor said:

Meh, All Star Games are a popularity contest. I don't think they should have any impact on whether someone should be in the HoF.

Of course but a guy who plays in 15 all star games is going to garner more “fame” than a guy who played in 2. 

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1 hour ago, happybat4 said:

He still was voted because of his reputation that year.

Abreu had a 1155 OPS the second month of the season. Gwynn had a good month and fell off the next few months. I don't know how you can argue he was deserving that year. I showed you the first half stats, many players had better OPS, way more speed and we're better defensive players.

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41 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

I just gave 1999 as an example. 

No, you listed a bunch o players that didn't make the All Star team that year.

In 1999 Abreu played on the Phillies in right field and hit .335/.446/.549/.995 that year. Larry Walker hit .379/.458/.710/1.168 that year. He is not being replaced by Bobby, fucking, Abreu. The backup right fielder was Tony Gywnn and behind him was a kid named Vladimir Guerrero who ended up crushing 42 home runs that year. So your boy didn't belong on that bench that year, there were three more dynamic players already on the roster. That specific year.

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41 minutes ago, Blarg said:

No, you listed a bunch o players that didn't make the All Star team that year.

In 1999 Abreu played on the Phillies in right field and hit .335/.446/.549/.995 that year. Larry Walker hit .379/.458/.710/1.168 that year. He is not being replaced by Bobby, fucking, Abreu. The backup right fielder was Tony Gywnn and behind him was a kid named Vladimir Guerrero who ended up crushing 42 home runs that year. So your boy didn't belong on that bench that year, there were three more dynamic players already on the roster. That specific year.

Vlad only had a .914 OPS at the break. Abreu was better that year.

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4 hours ago, happybat4 said:

1999.

He had a 858 OPS at the break and was voted in (also less than a single WAR at the break.)

Abreu didn't make it that year even though at the break he had a 970 OPS (and a 323 average) with 11 stolen bases.

Brian Giles had a 980 OPS at the break and didn't get selected.

Ricky Henderson had a .894 OPS at the break with 24 stolen bases and wasn't selected.

Carl Everett had an .878 OPS with 21 stolen bases at the break and wasn't selected.

Mike Cameron had an 848 OPS and 28 stolen bases at the break and wasn't chosen (plus great defense that year).

Andrew Jones had a 7+ WAR that year and didn't get selected (he had a .840 OPS at the break).

Kevin Young had a 918 OPS at the break (14 SB)

Reggie Sanders had a 985 OPS at the break with 20 stolen bases and wasn't selected.

This is one year, but Gwynn certainly had years where he was an all star and certainly didn't deserve it. 

 

 

How many people were paying attention to OPS and WAR in 1999? I’m guessing it wasn’t very many, aside from @Inside Pitch.

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2 hours ago, Blarg said:

No, you listed a bunch o players that didn't make the All Star team that year.

In 1999 Abreu played on the Phillies in right field and hit .335/.446/.549/.995 that year. Larry Walker hit .379/.458/.710/1.168 that year. He is not being replaced by Bobby, fucking, Abreu. The backup right fielder was Tony Gywnn and behind him was a kid named Vladimir Guerrero who ended up crushing 42 home runs that year. So your boy didn't belong on that bench that year, there were three more dynamic players already on the roster. That specific year.

All those players deserved it over Gwynn. All star selections for outfield weren't by outfield position back than. They didn't care if you were LF, CF, or RF, they simply just chose outfielders.

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1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

Why are you comparing Bobby Abreu's best season with one from Gwynn near the end of his career?

I was answering two different questions. Somebody mentioned that Abreu was only a 2 time all-star and Gwynn was a 15 time all star so therefore Gwynn was much better. All star selections are not a good measure for HOF. Gwynn was certainly a great player and deserved many all star selections, but certainly not 15. Abreu was definitely underrated and deserved more than 2 selections. I was simply giving an example of one time Gwynn didn't deserve a selection and one time Abreu did.

And according to war that was only Abreus 4th best season.

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17 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Gwynn had 7 seasons that were sub 3 war and was selected as an all-star.

Abreu had 7 seasons with over 3 war in which he wasn't selected for the all-star game.

 

2 hours ago, Tank said:

How many people were paying attention to OPS and WAR in 1999? I’m guessing it wasn’t very many, aside from @Inside Pitch.

WAR wasn't really around back in the 90s, or at least barely so. Back then, statnerds looked at the Bill James stuff like Runs Created and Offensive Winning %. I think WARP (Baseball Prospectus) came first, probably sometime in the late 90s. It wasn't added to Fangraphs until 2008, and Baseball Reference until 2010.

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3 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Vlad only had a .914 OPS at the break. Abreu was better that year.

Maybe you don't understand a damn thing anyone tells you. Abreu was not an exciting player to watch. Nobody stopped what they were doing to watch an Abreu at bat.

Vlad was an amazing athlete that threw out runners at first base on line drives to right field. That is why the manager picked Guerrero for his bench, because he was a dynamic and exciting player that could hit anything for power, steal bases and gun runners down. He was a true five tool player. 

 

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