Bobby Abreu HOFer?

[Erstad Grit]

Abreu and Edmonds were both guys that I didn't think were HOF, but deserved a hell of a lot more credit in terms of voting. 

[HanfordGuy]

The guy had 671 less hits than Gwynn. Not Cooperstown bound. Gwynn was a “hit machine” while Abreu was just a patient hitter.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:54 PM, HanfordGuy said:

The guy had 671 less hits than Gwynn. Not Cooperstown bound. Gwynn was a “hit machine” while Abreu was just a patient hitter.

Interestingly Abreu also scored more runs than Gwynn.

[Lou]

Gwynn had 109 more doubles than strikeouts.

[Stradling]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:54 PM, HanfordGuy said:

The guy had 671 less hits than Gwynn. Not Cooperstown bound. Gwynn was a “hit machine” while Abreu was just a patient hitter.

His 671 more hits didn’t lead to more times reaching base, didn’t account for more extra base hits nor did it create more rbi or runs scored.

[tdawg87]

Since we're using hits as a barometer, Abreu had more HR, RBI, Runs, SB, and a better OBP and SLG.

Gwynn deserves to be in, but he might be among the top 10 most overrated players of all time. Jim Edmonds has the same career OPS+.

 

[HanfordGuy]

16 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Interestingly Abreu also scored more runs than Gwynn.

 

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

His 671 more hits didn’t lead to more times reaching base, didn’t account for more extra base hits nor did it create more rbi or runs scored.

Abreu had the good fortune of playing with some good players in Philadelphia and NY. Gwynn played on mostly bad San Diego teams. 

[Lou]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

His 671 more hits didn’t lead to more times reaching base, didn’t account for more extra base hits nor did it create more rbi or runs scored.

Abreu cost his team runners by hitting into almost 100 more double plays than Gwynn. 

[HanfordGuy]

8 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Since we're using hits as a barometer, Abreu had more HR, RBI, Runs, SB, and a better OBP and SLG.

Gwynn deserves to be in, but he might be among the top 10 most overrated players of all time. Jim Edmonds has the same career OPS+.

 

Using HRs to compare these two is an apples to oranges debate. Gwynn was just a great hitter and prior to turning 30 was a decent base stealer. Abreu’s game was being a clutch hitter and amassing 100+ RBI seasons without big HR seasons during the steroid years.

[AngelsLakersFan]

11 minutes ago, HanfordGuy said:

 

Abreu had the good fortune of playing with some good players in Philadelphia and NY. Gwynn played on mostly bad San Diego teams. 

He did have the fortune of playing in some better offensive environments. That said his lead in runs scored has a lot more to do with his higher on base percentage, his higher on base starting position (he had more extra base hits) and his higher rated base running. 

I don't think people have made the case for Gwynn making the HoF due to his team's lack of talent. He just had the fortune of putting the majority of his skill points into a facet of the game that reflects well with the fan, while Abreu was more well rounded. They are actually surprisingly quite interchangeable players.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, HanfordGuy said:

Using HRs to compare these two is an apples to oranges debate. Gwynn was just a great hitter and prior to turning 30 was a decent base stealer. Abreu’s game was being a clutch hitter and amassing 100+ RBI seasons without big HR seasons during the steroid years.

Apples to oranges? What's more valuable, a single, or a homerun?

[Blarg]

The hit that wins the game. 

[HanfordGuy]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Apples to oranges? What's more valuable, a single, or a homerun?

Chicks dig the long ball but Abreu only had 288 career HRs and 2 30+ seasons. That doesn’t get you in the Hall unless you played in the early 20th century.

[HanfordGuy]

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/1367/bobby-abreu-a-statistical-anomaly
 

Bobby Abreu: a statistical anomaly

Ryan McCrystal, ESPN Stats & Info  Mar 26, 2010

Bobby Abreu is a little too old and too well known to qualify for our One2Watch4 series (Erick Aybar was the Angels representative), but he’s definitely someone to keep an eye on this season.

I’ve always been somewhat fascinated by Abreu for his ability to succeed in the modern era with a skill set that’s straight out of the early-20th century. Abreu has never quite looked the part of a major leaguer in the steroids era. Yet he remains one of the most consistent players in the game.

Its not just his physical attributes, however, that make Abreu look like he belongs in the 1940s. His stats don’t fit into this era either.

From Another Era

Most consecutive seasons with 100+ RBI, Fewer than 25 HR

Abreu is one of just six players to drive in over 100 RBI in each of the past five seasons. And he’s done it without hitting more than 24 home runs in any of the five seasons. Only 10 other players in MLB history have had five straight seasons with 100 RBI and fewer than 25 home runs and none since Charlie Gehringer from 1932-37. Should Abreu extend the streak this season, he’ll trail only Hugh Duffy (1893-00) and Harry Heilmann (1923-30) for the longest such streak in baseball history.

Now the fact that Abreu has driven in 100 RBI is certainly due, in large part, to the fact that he’s played for the Yankees and Angels. Its safe to say he’d fall well short of these numbers had he played in Kansas City or Pittsburgh. But his RBI totals do speak to his ability to come up big in clutch situations.

Take last season as an example: Abreu had 201 plate appearances with runners in scoring position (a number which is very conducive to driving in 100 runs). But Abreu didn’t just luck into those 100 RBI. He hit .354 with RISP – the highest BA with RISP for the Angels (min. 150 PA) since Brian Downing in 1979 (.367).

While Abreu’s power numbers are quickly declining, he’ll remain a valuable asset in the middle of the Angels lineup as long as he can continue to produce when it matters most.

[m0nkey]

On 12/24/2021 at 7:03 PM, happybat4 said:

I'm always amazed how quickly Lofton fell off the ballot, he was a stud.

Yup, I know this is about Abreu but loft on deserves more support than Bobby IMO

[HanfordGuy]

50 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Yup, I know this is about Abreu but loft on deserves more support than Bobby IMO

I know Lofton was a good ball player but I always think of him having to explain his excitement for the Giants taking the early lead in game 6 of the ‘02 WS video.

[m0nkey]

23 minutes ago, HanfordGuy said:

I know Lofton was a good ball player but I always think of him having to explain his excitement for the Giants taking the early lead in game 6 of the ‘02 WS video.

Similar thought, despite the great career when I think of Lofton I think of Erstad catching the final out in game 7

[Hubs]

The OP and tweeter he took it from are massaging the stats to make them Look like similar players. Abreu had more power but Gwynn was a better player.

Gwynn averaged a hit number (209) that Abreu never even reached. Gwynn has 3141 hits, Abreu 2470.

I firmly believe the strike cost Gwynn his .400 season.

Abreu, like Tim Salmon and others in this same range belongs in the Hall of Very Good. And just because some players get in to the HOF who are really just HOVG, doesn’t mean the bar should be lowered.

[Lou]

I can remember seeing Gwynn play many times at the Murph and being in awe. 

I can't recall watching any specific time i watched Abreu play. 

[happybat4]

21 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The OP and tweeter he took it from are massaging the stats to make them Look like similar players. Abreu had more power but Gwynn was a better player.

Gwynn averaged a hit number (209) that Abreu never even reached. Gwynn has 3141 hits, Abreu 2470.

I firmly believe the strike cost Gwynn his .400 season.

Abreu, like Tim Salmon and others in this same range belongs in the Hall of Very Good. And just because some players get in to the HOF who are really just HOVG, doesn’t mean the bar should be lowered.

Why only look at hits? Value comes in plenty of forms. Abreu and Gwyn were much similar value wise than Abreu and Salmon. Abreu was far better than Salmon.

[Adam]

Because of the election of others guys, he should be in. At least he arguably deserves it based on the frame of reference. Some guys just shouldn't be in. Like Baines. 

I don't want the Baseball HOF to become like Football or Basketball, which seemingly elect anyone who was a multi-time all star/pro bowler.

[Lou]

Speaking of All-Star Games, Gwynn played in 15 of them.  Abreu played in 2. 

[happybat4]

16 minutes ago, Lou said:

Speaking of All-Star Games, Gwynn played in 15 of them.  Abreu played in 2. 

Yep and Jeter won a bunch of gold gloves.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Yep and Jeter won a bunch of gold gloves.

Those aren't the same things. 

[Adam]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Speaking of All-Star Games, Gwynn played in 15 of them.  Abreu played in 2. 

This is probably the best argument against Abreu. It's the Hall of "Fame" not Hall of "Best Statistical Achieving Players"