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Angels and Reds have discussed Castillo trade, remain far apart


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Signing Jon Gray (career FIP just a little worse than Castillo’s) or re-signing Cobb (Driveline), and re-signing Iglesias would make more sense than trading too much for only two years of Castillo.

Years of control are too important to ignore.

Then trade for SS Kim and bring in a solid backup catcher.

Budget is only exceeded by at most some $10-15 million, still under tax threshold.   And keep Marsh/Adell and all top prospects for now.

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Ill say this. And @Dochalo is likely going to throw a shoe at me and call me an idiot, but it "feels" different this year. In that we may actually finally do something drastic.

I know we all have angels winter hot stove ptsd. And the past several years have sucked for sure.

But I think we forget how bad of a corner we were in in the past several years.

@Inside Pitch had a post a few days ago about the 2016 team. Id actually forgotten a few things, like cj wilson and bad ending weaver being on that team. With pujols, wilson and hamilton costing 80 or so million that year for basically zero return, plus no farm, etc etc.

I think the past few years, its been "lock up trout, cant do much more than that". Everything else was wait till alberts gone.

essentially, i think theyre probably to the point where they want SOME sort of value from trout, before its too late. But more importantly, I think Ohtani just forced their hand. (Like trout in 2012)

I wouldnt be surprised if theres a sense of urgency thats one of "ohtani is only staying if we turn it around, quick", or "ohtani isnt staying, better try and win one with him and trout before we totally waste the oppurtunity"

I havent been too excited over the scherzer rumors, but it almost makes a ton of sense. Him and syndegaard arent here long term, but give us our least commitment but best chance to win quickly...

If the goal is to try and win before shohei leaves (or makes the decision to), its not a bad plan at all.

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6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Ill say this. And @Dochalo is likely going to throw a shoe at me and call me an idiot, but it "feels" different this year. In that we may actually finally do something drastic.

I know we all have angels winter hot stove ptsd. And the past several years have sucked for sure.

But I think we forget how bad of a corner we were in in the past several years.

@Inside Pitch had a post a few days ago about the 2016 team. Id actually forgotten a few things, like cj wilson and bad ending weaver being on that team. With pujols, wilson and hamilton costing 80 or so million that year for basically zero return, plus no farm, etc etc.

I think the past few years, its been "lock up trout, cant do much more than that". Everything else was wait till alberts gone.

essentially, i think theyre probably to the point where they want SOME sort of value from trout, before its too late. But more importantly, I think Ohtani just forced their hand. (Like trout in 2012)

I wouldnt be surprised if theres a sense of urgency thats one of "ohtani is only staying if we turn it around, quick", or "ohtani isnt staying, better try and win one with him and trout before we totally waste the oppurtunity"

I havent been too excited over the scherzer rumors, but it almost makes a ton of sense. Him and syndegaard arent here long term, but give us our least commitment but best chance to win quickly...

If the goal is to try and win before shohei leaves (or makes the decision to), its not a bad plan at all.

Shut up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jk ilu

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18 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Ill say this. And @Dochalo is likely going to throw a shoe at me and call me an idiot, but it "feels" different this year. In that we may actually finally do something drastic.

I know we all have angels winter hot stove ptsd. And the past several years have sucked for sure.

But I think we forget how bad of a corner we were in in the past several years.

@Inside Pitch had a post a few days ago about the 2016 team. Id actually forgotten a few things, like cj wilson and bad ending weaver being on that team. With pujols, wilson and hamilton costing 80 or so million that year for basically zero return, plus no farm, etc etc.

I think the past few years, its been "lock up trout, cant do much more than that". Everything else was wait till alberts gone.

essentially, i think theyre probably to the point where they want SOME sort of value from trout, before its too late. But more importantly, I think Ohtani just forced their hand. (Like trout in 2012)

I wouldnt be surprised if theres a sense of urgency thats one of "ohtani is only staying if we turn it around, quick", or "ohtani isnt staying, better try and win one with him and trout before we totally waste the oppurtunity"

I havent been too excited over the scherzer rumors, but it almost makes a ton of sense. Him and syndegaard arent here long term, but give us our least commitment but best chance to win quickly...

If the goal is to try and win before shohei leaves (or makes the decision to), its not a bad plan at all.

Lm93KRM.gif 

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43 minutes ago, Torridd said:

OK, what would you guys say is a fair deal? I'm not as knowledgeable in these types of things. I wouldn't want to give up both Adell and Marsh plus a pitcher for this guy, especially if it's just two years. 

It's two years of Castillo, who we think will bounce back but we aren't totally sure. That drives the price down for me. 

I would offer Adell and Jeremiah Jackson. That's it. 

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49 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I've said for a while now if taking on Moose would make Castillo easy to aquire I would.  I'd rather pay Moose than trade elite prospects.  

Then just buck up to the price of a free agent, keep all the prospects, and don’t be burdened with Moose taking a roster spot (unless you view him as a good everyday player).

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5 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Then just buck up to the price of a free agent, keep all the prospects, and don’t be burdened with Moose taking a roster spot (unless you view him as a good everyday player).

I think let Goselin leave and Moose could be a decent bench utility corner infielder.  I'm also fine just giving Ray 5/125 or Scherzer 2/70

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1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

I've said for a while now if taking on Moose would make Castillo easy to aquire I would.  I'd rather pay Moose than trade elite prospects.  

Look I get your point, but we'd have to do both, just not as much.

They aren't giving anyone Castillo. They want a good haul. 

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5 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I think let Goselin leave and Moose could be a decent bench utility corner infielder.  I'm also fine just giving Ray 5/125 or Scherzer 2/70

You're going to pay him $34M over the next 2 years, plus a $4M buyout after that, to be a "decent bench utility corner infielder"?

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2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Signing Jon Gray (career FIP just a little worse than Castillo’s) or re-signing Cobb (Driveline), and re-signing Iglesias would make more sense than trading too much for only two years of Castillo.

Years of control are too important to ignore.

Then trade for SS Kim and bring in a solid backup catcher.

Budget is only exceeded by at most some $10-15 million, still under tax threshold.   And keep Marsh/Adell and all top prospects for now.

Luis Castillo hasn't missed recent time with shoulder inflammation though.

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2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Ill say this. And @Dochalo is likely going to throw a shoe at me and call me an idiot, but it "feels" different this year. In that we may actually finally do something drastic.

I know we all have angels winter hot stove ptsd. And the past several years have sucked for sure.

But I think we forget how bad of a corner we were in in the past several years.

@Inside Pitch had a post a few days ago about the 2016 team. Id actually forgotten a few things, like cj wilson and bad ending weaver being on that team. With pujols, wilson and hamilton costing 80 or so million that year for basically zero return, plus no farm, etc etc.

I think the past few years, its been "lock up trout, cant do much more than that". Everything else was wait till alberts gone.

essentially, i think theyre probably to the point where they want SOME sort of value from trout, before its too late. But more importantly, I think Ohtani just forced their hand. (Like trout in 2012)

I wouldnt be surprised if theres a sense of urgency thats one of "ohtani is only staying if we turn it around, quick", or "ohtani isnt staying, better try and win one with him and trout before we totally waste the oppurtunity"

I havent been too excited over the scherzer rumors, but it almost makes a ton of sense. Him and syndegaard arent here long term, but give us our least commitment but best chance to win quickly...

If the goal is to try and win before shohei leaves (or makes the decision to), its not a bad plan at all.

I dunno about "drastic" - but maybe "necessary"

Management has to see that if we want to keep two likely first-ballot hall-of-famers together for the next several years, we have to give them a path to the World Series.  Ohtani, I think, will be loyal to a fault.  But I'm certain he doesn't want to spend his entire MLB career watching the playoffs from Japan,  no matter how much money we have for him.  He can get money from any team - we need to give him a path to the championship.    

And you know what?  Arte is 75 - his window is closing, too.  It's hard to imagine he'll ever be in a better position than the next 2 or 3 years.  

He's been burned by big free agent signings (trades) before - but his footprints were all over the backs of his gm's in those - he needs to trust his GM, just tell him "By Any Means Necessary" and  sign the checks. 

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3 hours ago, Second Base said:

I didn't have any insight into negotiations, but I think I remember something along the lines of either Adell or Marsh and one more high end prospect like Jackson or Adams. 

I wouldn't under any circumstance use any pitching prospects in negotiations. It's hard to see right now, but Detmers, Davis, Bachman and Bush will play a major role in 2023 and beyond. 

The people I'm familiar with in the Reds org are in player development/scouting both pro/amateur and an integral part of their player acquisition group. 

Their top three targets at the deadline were Adell, Rodriguez, Jackson/Paris.  One of the three has since said they rank the Angels' 5+ control players as Adell, Marsh, Rodriguez, Detmers, Bachman.  This is even after CRod was said to be unavailable to start the season. 

Adell is still viewed as the most high end guy in the system by both the Reds and Red Sox ppl I'm familiar with. Cinci ppl have questions about Detmers' velo spike and aren't all on the same page regarding Bachman, they like them but they see one as a mid rotation guy the other potentially as a RP, neither guy is a sure thing front of the rotation guy in their minds.

These guys have no reason to spin things or play coy with me regarding their player player evaluations, their rankings are based on their organizational philosophies but the feeling I get is they view Detmers/Bachman as quantity more than quality.  

The other thing they are keenly aware of is the value other organizations place on certain saber metric data points which elevate teams' view of Castillo.

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