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Angels Off-season Predictions


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I think I am detecting something different.  The media is calling out the Angels in a way they have not before.  The manager is calling out the front office to get the pitching they need.

You know, this is what happens to the elite franchises.  They experience a level of being accountable that other teams just don’t experience.

Maybe the fans need to ask themselves if they have been too permissive and polite in accepting mediocrity.  I certainly don’t want the Angel fans to be obnoxious aholes like the Red Sox fans but maybe it is better to be a bit more demanding.

Get. It. Done.         No. Effing. Excuses.

This team has most of what it needs outside of high level starting pitching.  I know the bullpen needs help but if you populate two starting pitching spots with high quality arms to slot in front of Ohtani, then the organization has quite a few arms that could help in the pen.

Bottom line is I don’t care if it is through free agency or by trade, this front office absolutely must land two starters that are clearly high end, guys that you would be thrilled to hand the ball to in postseason games.

It ain’t any more complicated than that.  Everybody knows it.

If this exact roster was in New York in pinstripes, the media and the fans would demand they just get it done, and heads would roll if they don’t.

So maybe it’s time, if the Angels want to be the premium top tier franchise, for the front office to openly accept the non-negotiable obligation to acquire what the team obviously needs with the consequences of failing to do so being you get absolutely lambasted and roasted in the media and by the fans. . . and fired.

Edited by Dtwncbad
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Year in and year out the Mets get killed in the New York press. Their own fan base hates their favorite team.  That has had no impact on them being successful.  The LA Times shits on the Angels.  The LA Times finds the Angels irrelevant.  That hasn’t made them successful. Talk radio only mentions the Angels in regards to wasting Trout and now Ohtani’s careers. That hasn’t made the team better. We can pretend 3 million fans showed up each year from 2016-2019 but in reality about 25k showed up per game, and this year it was closer to 15-18k. So no, I really don’t believe being accountable to your fan base or the media has any bearing on success. 

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The SP FA will be a Gray (Col)/Desclafani range, someone who wont require much above 4/60.  Minasian will sign a SP early and claim they are still in the race for higher tier pitching which will not end up happening after he re-signs Iglesias and a mid tier SS or 2B (moving Fletch over).  He spends the remaining budget on something other than a TOR type, relying on Ohtani to be the ace, Gray/Desclafani type as #2 and Suarez/Sandoval as 3/4.  He will make a trade for a BP arm OR the SS/2P player and sign a BP arm.

Wild ass prediction:  Signs C Mike Zunino, and trades Stassi to a payroll challenged team for pitching. 

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1 hour ago, Junkballer said:

Wild ass prediction:  Signs C Mike Zunino, and trades Stassi to a payroll challenged team for pitching. 

Rays have a $4M team option on Zunino. Even though they have Mejia waiting in the wings, Zunino's option is cheap enough that I'd be very surprised if they don't pick it up. 

EDIT: Turns out it's actually $7M, since he played in 100 games this year. I still think that's cheap enough that they'll pick it up. 

Edited by jsnpritchett
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27 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Rays have a $4M team option on Zunino. Even though they have Mejia waiting in the wings, Zunino's option is cheap enough that I'd be very surprised if they don't pick it up. 

EDIT: Turns out it's actually $7M, since he played in 100 games this year. I still think that's cheap enough that they'll pick it up. 

I was really hoping they’d non-tender him last year and we’d sign him. Sigh.

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4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Year in and year out the Mets get killed in the New York press. Their own fan base hates their favorite team.  That has had no impact on them being successful.  The LA Times shits on the Angels.  The LA Times finds the Angels irrelevant.  That hasn’t made them successful. Talk radio only mentions the Angels in regards to wasting Trout and now Ohtani’s careers. That hasn’t made the team better. We can pretend 3 million fans showed up each year from 2016-2019 but in reality about 25k showed up per game, and this year it was closer to 15-18k. So no, I really don’t believe being accountable to your fan base or the media has any bearing on success. 

I did not say if we all criticize the Angels it will cause the team to do better.  I am saying everyone should reject failure.  If they fail, then everyone should act acoirdingly.

Read the conclusion again for the jist:

So maybe it’s time, if the Angels want to be the premium top tier franchise, for the front office to openly accept the non-negotiable obligation to acquire what the team obviously needs with the consequences of failing to do so being you get absolutely lambasted and roasted in the media and by the fans. . . and fired.”

Personally I am not going to automatically give the team my money and attention if they are not good enough.  It’s time to win, not just hope the team wins.

 

Edited by Dtwncbad
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19 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I did not say if we all criticize the Angels it will cause the team to do better.  I am saying everyone should reject failure.  If they fail, then everyone should act acoirdingly.

Read the conclusion again for the jist:

So maybe it’s time, if the Angels want to be the premium top tier franchise, for the front office to openly accept the non-negotiable obligation to acquire what the team obviously needs with the consequences of failing to do so being you get absolutely lambasted and roasted in the media and by the fans. . . and fired.”

Personally I am not going to automatically give the team my money and attention if they are not good enough.  It’s time to win, not just hope the team wins.

 

This is pretty much where I am.  I used to go to 20+ games a year, but I haven't been to one since...late 2017, maybe?  Just not worth the hassle and expense, given the continued mediocrity.  Obviously, I still watch most of the games when I'm free, but I'm definitely losing some of the emotional attachment/investment I've had in the past.

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7 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

This is pretty much where I am.  I used to go to 20+ games a year, but I haven't been to one since...late 2017, maybe?  Just not worth the hassle and expense, given the continued mediocrity.  Obviously, I still watch most of the games when I'm free, but I'm definitely losing some of the emotional attachment/investment I've had in the past.

This.  Why spend good money for a mediocre product?   I went to the stadium twice this year, and passed on going after July, because we were out of it already, and the team was lousy.  

I hope Arte reads this.  Get Scherzer, Seager and re-sign Iglesias.  Win 95-100 games, and it'll be 2002 all over again.  The park will be packed, and everyone will happily pay $16 for a beer. 

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There’s not really a lot to say I don’t think.  They could do about 5 million things that would potentially help the team.  What needs to happen is that in the bones of the organization the way it is run needs to change.  They need to be way better at scouting.  They need to be way better at development at all levels.  For us on the outside there’s no way to know if that’s happening or if anything is actually being changed until the results hit the major league team.  That takes years.  They at least seem to have produced some results with fielders.  Not spectacular.  But not absolutely nothing, which it was for a while. 

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5 hours ago, Stradling said:

Year in and year out the Mets get killed in the New York press. Their own fan base hates their favorite team.  That has had no impact on them being successful.  The LA Times shits on the Angels.  The LA Times finds the Angels irrelevant.  That hasn’t made them successful. Talk radio only mentions the Angels in regards to wasting Trout and now Ohtani’s careers. That hasn’t made the team better. We can pretend 3 million fans showed up each year from 2016-2019 but in reality about 25k showed up per game, and this year it was closer to 15-18k. So no, I really don’t believe being accountable to your fan base or the media has any bearing on success. 

and even if you want to be accountable to the fans, it doesn't magically make a front office better at their job to do so.  

I haven't checked twitter because I really don't give a squat but I bet Yankee fans are going ballistic right now.  Met fans.  Angel fans.  Cubs fans.  Nats fans.  Probably Pads fans too.  

You listen to your customers and the customer is always right but they generally have little understanding of what it takes and why or how you proceed from an operation and infrastructure standpoint in order to make material changes when necessary.

@Stradling  I gonna use you and your biz as an example for a sec so please tell me if I'm wrong on this.  Because it's already been beaten to death.  People have been complaining about in n out fries for years.  I'm sure we can find blogs and websites and tweets and facebook posts etc of people bitching about such.  Yet has in n out changed their fries?  Do they even have a remote intention of doing so?  I doubt it.  And my guess is that it's not just about the money it would cost to get new fries but the operation cost and the downstream effect of changing your fry process at 358 locations.   But what they did do that was brilliant was to get people to throw some stuff on top that every site already had available or to customize the cooking process a bit.  To do things that don't fundamentally disrupt the operational process.   

My point is, a few complaints aren't going to forge change.  The Angels probably think they have a very good understanding of their product and what it takes for people to spend money on it.  

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1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

and even if you want to be accountable to the fans, it doesn't magically make a front office better at their job to do so.  

I haven't checked twitter because I really don't give a squat but I bet Yankee fans are going ballistic right now.  Met fans.  Angel fans.  Cubs fans.  Nats fans.  Probably Pads fans too.  

You listen to your customers and the customer is always right but they generally have little understanding of what it takes and why or how you proceed from an operation and infrastructure standpoint in order to make material changes when necessary.

@Stradling  I gonna use you and your biz as an example for a sec so please tell me if I'm wrong on this.  Because it's already been beaten to death.  People have been complaining about in n out fries for years.  I'm sure we can find blogs and websites and tweets and facebook posts etc of people bitching about such.  Yet has in n out changed their fries?  Do they even have a remote intention of doing so?  I doubt it.  And my guess is that it's not just about the money it would cost to get new fries but the operation cost and the downstream effect of changing your fry process at 358 locations.   But what they did do that was brilliant was to get people to throw some stuff on top that every site already had available or to customize the cooking process a bit.  To do things that don't fundamentally disrupt the operational process.   

My point is, a few complaints aren't going to forge change.  The Angels probably think they have a very good understanding of their product and what it takes for people to spend money on it.  

Very long conversation that we can have at some point.  But the gist is pretty much spot on. The fans of the Angels asking for people to be fired isn’t going to make that happen or magically change the product on the field. Oh and it isn’t as simple as fans make it out to be either. Arte could easily say fuck it and spend the money to bring in Scherzer, Ray, Gausman, Iglesias and McHugh. If the offense is hurt then they aren’t winning. Oh and you can’t keep buying every free agent because you shot your wad this off season. 

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58 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Very long conversation that we can have at some point.  But the gist is pretty much spot on. The fans of the Angels asking for people to be fired isn’t going to make that happen or magically change the product on the field. Oh and it isn’t as simple as fans make it out to be either. Arte could easily say fuck it and spend the money to bring in Scherzer, Ray, Gausman, Iglesias and McHugh. If the offense is hurt then they aren’t winning. Oh and you can’t keep buying every free agent because you shot your wad this off season. 

Notice how he artfully dodged the fries question?  We got a future INO press secretary on here folks....

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12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Notice how he artfully dodged the fries question?  We got a future INO press secretary on here folks....

I am changing roles at the beginning of the year, but no I won’t be the INO press secretary.  

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13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Notice how he artfully dodged the fries question?  We got a future INO press secretary on here folks....

I didn't mean to put him on the spot because we all know the answer.  But damn he handled that like a seasoned vet.  

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And I have no idea where to start in terms of predicting the Angels off season.  I know what I'd like them to do.  

Sign, Taylor, Villar, Jon Gray, someone like Graveman, Cobb, and Pina (backup C).  Then trade some of our starter depth like Barria for more pen help.  Maybe trade Ward or Rengifo for that as well.  Don't trade Adell or Marsh.  Keep Rodriguez a starter.  Extend Ohtani and Stassi.  Add Davis to the 40 man.  And ideally, convince Arte to spend a bit more so that they can bring back Iglesias.  Cishek on a minor league deal

Rotation: Ohtani, Gray, Cobb, Sandoval, Suarez/Canning/Rodriguez/Detmers for spots 5 and 6.  The other two (probably Canning and Detmers) in the minors.  (6)

Pen: Iglesias, Gravemen, Trade, Warren, Mayers,  Quijada, trade/FA/waiver/depth x2 (8)

Position players:  Marsh LF, Trout CF, Ohtani DH, Rendon 3b, Walsh 1b, Adell RF, Taylor SS, Stassi C, Fletcher 2b (8)

Bench:  Villar - util, Pina C, Ward - OF/IF and 3rd C.  (3)

Leaves one open spot.  I think I'd prefer another Ward type player but LHed hitter.  Maybe Rengifo.  

The idea of adding Taylor and Villar is growing on me big time.  Villar would be a great safety valve for every infield position and Taylor is the SS but could rotate to the OF if needed.  Gives the team a ton of flex. 

depth depth depth.  We were ninth in overall pitching for the 2nd half and with who?  A random bunch of reasonably capable guys.  Ones that might not have been great but they generally didn't completely suck.  Our offense was dead last in baseball in the 2nd half.  You know why?  Zero friggin depth.  

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1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

And I have no idea where to start in terms of predicting the Angels off season.  I know what I'd like them to do.  

Sign, Taylor, Villar, Jon Gray, someone like Graveman, Cobb, and Pina (backup C).  Then trade some of our starter depth like Barria for more pen help.  Maybe trade Ward or Rengifo for that as well.  Don't trade Adell or Marsh.  Keep Rodriguez a starter.  Extend Ohtani and Stassi.  Add Davis to the 40 man.  And ideally, convince Arte to spend a bit more so that they can bring back Iglesias.  Cishek on a minor league deal

Rotation: Ohtani, Gray, Cobb, Sandoval, Suarez/Canning/Rodriguez/Detmers for spots 5 and 6.  The other two (probably Canning and Detmers) in the minors.  (6)

Pen: Iglesias, Gravemen, Trade, Warren, Mayers,  Quijada, trade/FA/waiver/depth x2 (8)

Position players:  Marsh LF, Trout CF, Ohtani DH, Rendon 3b, Walsh 1b, Adell RF, Taylor SS, Stassi C, Fletcher 2b (8)

Bench:  Villar - util, Pina C, Ward - OF/IF and 3rd C.  (3)

Leaves one open spot.  I think I'd prefer another Ward type player but LHed hitter.  Maybe Rengifo.  

The idea of adding Taylor and Villar is growing on me big time.  Villar would be a great safety valve for every infield position and Taylor is the SS but could rotate to the OF if needed.  Gives the team a ton of flex. 

depth depth depth.  We were ninth in overall pitching for the 2nd half and with who?  A random bunch of reasonably capable guys.  Ones that might not have been great but they generally didn't completely suck.  Our offense was dead last in baseball in the 2nd half.  You know why?  Zero friggin depth.  

Adding Taylor or Villar to improve the middle-infield would be great.

I'm not sure how much value Barria or Rengifo have, but trading players like them for bullpen depth would be ideal if possible.

I'd love them to add Piña as a backup C, but I worry that they might not have the budget to spend money on a backup catcher.

Cishek will get more than a minor league deal. Regardless of how he may be viewed, he put up a 3.42 ERA, 3.74 FIP, and 0.9 fWAR in 68.1 IP. That'll get him a guaranteed deal for at least a few million dollars.

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11 minutes ago, Trendon said:

 

I'd love them to add Piña as a backup C, but I worry that they might not have the budget to spend money on a backup catcher.

 

They can't afford not to spend on a quality backup C.  Stassi has injury and concussion history and shouldn't be counted on for more than 90 or so games. I don't think Benboom, as the second backup, is even signed past 2021. Thiass is an emergency C until he can get some games in at the MLB level, meaning not this year, if ever.  Going cheap on backup C may undo some of the gains they make on the pitching side, but they've done more foolish things before so who knows.

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2 minutes ago, Junkballer said:

They can't afford not to spend on a quality backup C.  Stassi has injury and concussion history and shouldn't be counted on for more than 90 or so games. I don't think Benboom, as the second backup, is even signed past 2021. Thiass is an emergency C until he can get some games in at the MLB level, meaning not this year, if ever.  Going cheap on backup C may undo some of the gains they make on the pitching side, but they've done more foolish things before so who knows.

Bemboom isn't in the Angels system anymore.  He was claimed off waivers by the Dodgers.

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1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Adding Taylor or Villar to improve the middle-infield would be great.

I'm not sure how much value Barria or Rengifo have, but trading players like them for bullpen depth would be ideal if possible.

I'd love them to add Piña as a backup C, but I worry that they might not have the budget to spend money on a backup catcher.

Cishek will get more than a minor league deal. Regardless of how he may be viewed, he put up a 3.42 ERA, 3.74 FIP, and 0.9 fWAR in 68.1 IP. That'll get him a guaranteed deal for at least a few million dollars.

Barria has 55 starts with a 4.03 ERA. 4 War with just about 2 seasons of starts.

I believe 4 years of club control.  I  got to think he has some value.

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19 hours ago, stormngt said:

Barria has 55 starts with a 4.03 ERA. 4 War with just about 2 seasons of starts.

I believe 4 years of club control.  I  got to think he has some value.

His peripherals tell a different story, though, as he has a 5.02 FIP, 4.99 xFIP, 7.07 K/9, and 2.94 BB/9 in those same 55 starts. He doesn't get enough whiffs and doesn't limit walks.

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20 hours ago, Junkballer said:

They can't afford not to spend on a quality backup C.  Stassi has injury and concussion history and shouldn't be counted on for more than 90 or so games. I don't think Benboom, as the second backup, is even signed past 2021. Thiass is an emergency C until he can get some games in at the MLB level, meaning not this year, if ever.  Going cheap on backup C may undo some of the gains they make on the pitching side, but they've done more foolish things before so who knows.

A quality backup will cost 4-5 million.

I'm not sure they're gonna be willing to commit that to a backup catcher, especially when they need to use their money for SP, RP, and a SS.

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