MLB to require vaccinations for all minor league players starting in 2022

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think the simple answer is obviously, "If the government does something I agree with, it's fine.  When they don't, they should butt out."

It's a laughable stance, really.

And that's the exact stance that liberals have, as well. Or rather, liberals say, "If we have the president, then corporations and big pharma are good, and we should censor anything that disagrees."

It is all a farce.

[Taylor]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

See my previous post. The "science behind the COVID vaccine" is disputed by many scientists, doctors, nurses, and other health practitioners. But those disputes are censored and/or labeled as "conspiracy theory" or "pseudoscience" by those, such as yourself, who trust the mainstream media. 

This isn't about whether or not somebody "trusts the science," but whether or not someone trusts media and the anointed spokespeople for the science, e.g. Fauci, Gupta, Wen, etc.

Are you an anti-vaxxer in general, or just for the COVID vaccine?

Also, about 96% of doctors have gotten the COVID vaccine, and about 88% of nurses. 

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19

https://covidvaccinefacts4nurses.org/covid-19-survey

 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, m0nkey said:

I’m on this side. Whether or not you agree with the mandate, if you don’t like it, find another employer 

Exactly.  Last time I checked, "un-vaccinated morons" was not a protected class.

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

Seatbelt laws are unconstitutional. How dare the government tell me what I can and can't do in my own vehicle?

My employer doesn't let me come to work naked. How dare they tell me what I can and can't do with my body?

Again, neither of these line up with the covid vaccine in any meaningful way.

I personally don't think that seatbelts should be mandated, even if they obviously save lives. 

As for your second one, that's just silly and has no relationship to vaccines.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

And that's the exact stance that liberals have, as well. Or rather, liberals say, "If we have the president, then corporations and big pharma are good, and we should censor anything that disagrees."

It is all a farce.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, Taylor said:

Are you an anti-vaxxer in general, or just for the COVID vaccine?

Also, about 96% of doctors have gotten the COVID vaccine, and about 88% of nurses. 

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19

https://covidvaccinefacts4nurses.org/covid-19-survey

 

I'm not saying one way or another about my stance on vaccines - that is a personal decision, and none of your business.

What we're talking about are mandates, and my position is obvious: I'm against them.

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

Again, neither of these line up with the covid vaccine in any meaningful way.

I personally don't think that seatbelts should be mandated, even if they obviously save lives. 

As for your second one, that's just silly and has no relationship to vaccines.

In your opinion.

[Taylor]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

I'm not saying one way or another about my stance on vaccines - that is a personal decision, and none of your business.

What we're talking about are mandates, and my position is obvious: I'm against them.

It kind of does inform me where you're coming from. If you're an anti-vaxxer in general, you are someone who distrusts the scientific consensus and believes fringe medical ideas. If you're only suspicious of the COVID vaccine because it hasn't been around for very long, then I can kind of understand where you're coming from.

[tdawg87]

AJ pretending not to be a lib is hilarious.

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

It kind of does inform me where you're coming from. If you're an anti-vaxxer in general, you are someone who distrusts the scientific consensus and believes fringe medical ideas. If you're only suspicious of the COVID vaccine because it hasn't been around for very long, then I can kind of understand where you're coming from.

But what does it matter? We're talking about mandates. It sounds like you want to "know where I'm coming from" so you can discredit any opinion I have on the subject, which must be a logical fallacy of some kind. Sort of like, "You're a man, so can't have an opinion on sexism" or "you're a liberal, so anything you say about guns is bs."

Furthermore, your phrases like "scientific consensus" and "fringe medical ideas" are loaded. First of all, the "scientific consensus" isn't so clear or clean as you imply; the media is heavily censorious of any dissent views, so the public isn't even given the opportunity to understand why some very smart people question the vaccines or weigh the evidence for themselves. Secondly, "consent" is tricky, because--at least according to anecdotes, and in general--a lot of people go along with the consensus out of fear, of losing their jobs, being labeled (e.g. quacks, conspiracy theorists, etc).

And, of course, "scientific consensus" is rather meaningless when it is tainted by corporate interests, aka big pharma, and political motivations.

And as for "fringe medical ideas," remember, our medical establishment says little about preventative care or immune support, or the fact that 80% of hospitalized covid patients are obese, or that simple. Youtube is (or was) censoring any mention of "Vitamin C" in relation to covid. And don't get me started on ivermectin.

The mainstream narrative is: Take our pharmaceutical or you'll probably die. This is simply not true. There are other factors, other approaches to prevention and treatment. People should have options and be able to make informed decisions for themselves.

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

AJ pretending not to be a lib is hilarious.

I know you're joking, but this isn't about left vs right, it is about authoritarian vs. libertarian. That is, whether our lives should be dictated from above--be it politicians, corporations, or scientists--or whether we should be free to make our own medical decisions.

 

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

But what does it matter? We're talking about mandates. It sounds like you want to "know where I'm coming from" so you can discredit any opinion I have on the subject, which must be a logical fallacy of some kind. Sort of like, "You're a man, so can't have an opinion on sexism" or "you're a liberal, so anything you say about guns is bs."

Furthermore, your phrases like "scientific consensus" and "fringe medical ideas" are loaded. First of all, the "scientific consensus" isn't so clear or clean as you imply; the media is heavily censorious of any dissent views, so the public isn't even given the opportunity to understand why some very smart people question the vaccines or weigh the evidence for themselves. Secondly, "consent" is tricky, because--at least according to anecdotes, and in general--a lot of people go along with the consensus out of fear, of losing their jobs, being labeled (e.g. quacks, conspiracy theorists, etc).

And, of course, "scientific consensus" is rather meaningless when it is tainted by corporate interests, aka big pharma, and political motivations.

And as for "fringe medical ideas," remember, our medical establishment says little about preventative care or immune support, or the fact that 80% of hospitalized covid patients are obese, or that simple. Youtube is (or was) censoring any mention of "Vitamin C" in relation to covid. And don't get me started on ivermectin.

The mainstream narrative is: Take our pharmaceutical or you'll probably die. This is simply not true. There are other factors, other approaches to prevention and treatment. People should have options and be able to make informed decisions for themselves.

This is all very interesting, and I've heard these arguments before. But I've yet to see anyone provide reputable sources for them. Do share.

[Inside Pitch]

Reading this thread while The Smith's "Panic" plays made for a slight chuckle....

[Taylor]

For the record, I don't consume any "mainstream media." All of the doctors I've talked to, including my PCP and my daughter's pediatrician, are very pro-vaccine and pro-COVID vaccine.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

People have the option of not taking the vaccine.  Just like employers, businesses and so on can require proof of vaccination from employees and customers.  I'm vaccinated but even if there's a policy or requirement I agree with that doesn't mean I agree with applying it to everyone.  Vaccines however don't fall in this category for me because I think it's a matter of the greater good.  There's no good reason something like measles should have made a comeback and that only put more people at risk.  I realize this is a new vaccine and I'm not comparing COVID and measles but if someone doesn't want the COVID vaccine that's fine just don't expect the rest of the world to accommodate that fact.  I have a co worker who just got back from traveling abroad and the requirements and restrictions to travel to or even just through some countries are much more stringent than anything we've seen here to date.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Not a fan of government mandates, regardless of which side they come from (vaccines, abortion laws, etc). Usually this stuff originates from the corporations that have the politicians in their pocket, and we all know corporations have our best interests in mind. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

2 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

People have the option of not taking the vaccine.  Just like employers, businesses and so on can require proof of vaccination from employees and customers.  I'm vaccinated but even if there's a policy or requirement I agree with that doesn't mean I agree with applying it to everyone.  Vaccines however don't fall in this category for me because I think it's a matter of the greater good.  There's no good reason something like measles should have made a comeback and that only put more people at risk.  I realize this is a new vaccine but and I'm not comparing the two but if someone doesn't want it that's fine just don't expect the rest of the world to accommodate you.  I have a co worker who just got back from traveling abroad and the requirements and restrictions to travel to or even just through some countries are much more stringent than anything we've seen here to date.

Yeah I'm from the Soviet Union and this sort of rhetoric raises some considerable alarm bells. 

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

This is all very interesting, and I've heard these arguments before. But I've yet to see anyone provide reputable sources for them. Do share.

My guess is that anyone I mention won't be considered "reputable." Or perhaps I should ask, what are your personal qualifications for what is "reputable?" Are only MDs and reputable? And if so, which ones? Are all chiropractors and naturopaths inherently un-reputable? 

But finding sources is only one, if major, facet of this. Another is just using your own logic, and developing your own understanding of health. For instance, immune support and preventative care. 

Also, look at the news outside of the US, although even then you'll have to look outside of the big corporate orgs. Look at Israel, or India--which has seen numbers fall drastically with widespread use of ivermectin.

But just so we're clear, I have some very fringe ideas about a lot of things, that don't show up in my baseball discussions. Guilty as charged.

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Not a fan of government mandates, regardless of which side they come from (vaccines, abortion laws, etc). Usually this stuff originates from the corporations that have the politicians in their pocket, and we all corporations have our best interests in mind. 

We're not talking about a government mandate. We're talking about a private organizational mandate.

[Angels 1961]

I just joined the Flat Mars Society. No vaccine required on the first visit to the red planet. Vaccine is required on return trip.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

2 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Yeah I'm from the Soviet Union and this sort of rhetoric raises some considerable alarm bells. 

The greater good doesn't have to mean former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany level actions.  I look at it as more of a pragmatic approach to certain things so greater good probably isn't the best choice of words if it's being applied to extreme actions made in the past.

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

For the record, I don't consume any "mainstream media." All of the doctors I've talked to, including my PCP and my daughter's pediatrician, are very pro-vaccine and pro-COVID vaccine.

Most allopathic doctors are. But again, this is--or should be, imo--about personal choice. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

Just now, Taylor said:

We're not talking about a government mandate. We're talking about a private organizational mandate.

Which is ultimately being very heavily pushed by the government, which in turn is in the pocket of big pharma, who benefits directly from having people as dependent on the healthcare system as possible. And is the mandate for organizations over 100 people not a thing anymore? Honest question. 

[greginpsca]

51 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Angelsjunky I have a bunch of lefty friends/family who are against vaccine mandates as well. This really isn't and shouldn't be a political issue. 

This is a personal choice discussion. Vaccine mandates are unconstitutional. 

A large volume of anti-vaxers are African Americans and from young healthy men/women of all races, all political preferences.

This is going to get fought in the higher courts. 

Wrong on all counts

 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

My guess is that anyone I mention won't be considered "reputable." Or perhaps I should ask, what are your personal qualifications for what is "reputable?" Are only MDs and reputable? And if so, which ones? Are all chiropractors and naturopaths inherently un-reputable? 

But finding sources is only one, if major, facet of this. Another is just using your own logic, and developing your own understanding of health. For instance, immune support and preventative care. 

Also, look at the news outside of the US, although even then you'll have to look outside of the big corporate orgs. Look at Israel, or India--which has seen numbers fall drastically with widespread use of ivermectin.

But just so we're clear, I have some very fringe ideas about a lot of things, that don't show up in my baseball discussions. Guilty as charged.

MDs are much more reputable than chiropractors, for instance. Chiropractors aren't medical doctors. Nurses are similarly not really experts in medicine. Their job is incredibly important and they provide an invaluable service by providing medical care, but they're not nearly as educated as doctors.

96% of doctors have gotten the vaccine. Doesn't that tell you something? Or perhaps that number is made up by big pharma. Or perhaps all doctors get some kind of kickback from vaccines being taken.

I'm curious to see some links about ivermectin's success in Israel and India. Please provide.