Time to go all-in?

[WicketMaiden]

Ohtani is slap bang in his prime; Trout is approaching the end of his and may already be declining, our elite 3rd baseman Rendon will be 32 next year. We have the outfield we've been talking about for years in Adell, Trout and Marsh, and an infield set on both sides of the ball aside from Short-stop (where we have promising youngsters only a season or two away).

We finally have a conveyor belt of promising pitching coming up from the minors, with three (or four if you include Canning) ready for the rotation to add to Ohtani's ace-like arm, and some interesting guys for the bullpen.

Surely now, this off-season, is the time to go all-in. To use some of the farm depth we've built up for trades and to blow the budget open for a year until Upton is off the books to put the pieces around Trout, Ohtani and a very good supporting cast that are needed to make the Angels genuine contenders.

I can't see how the window will be any more open in 2023 than it is for 2022: the time is now. 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Tough to argue with this.

I think its stupid to chase the "trout window", because it paints us in a corner.

But we're in that corner already.

It wont fix everything, but a legit front end starter and a legit set up guy would work wonders for this team (unless everyone dies again next year).

 

[tdawg87]

Arte would have to raise the payroll by like 60 million. 

Is it unrealistic? Yes. But is it stupid? Yes.

Not my money.

[Slegnaac]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Arte would have to raise the payroll by like 60 million. 

Is it unrealistic? Yes. But is it stupid? Yes.

Not my money.

Stupid things have happened before so, why not?

[tdawg87]

Just now, Slegnaac said:

Stupid things have happened before so, why not?

I think anything that happens this offseason will be stupid, so I agree.

[Taylor]

25 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Arte would have to raise the payroll by like 60 million. 

Is it unrealistic? Yes. But is it stupid? Yes.

Not my money.

Arte is probably crunching numbers trying to figure out if he can fire any more of their eight scouts (who make $40K-$70K per year).

[Jay]

Yes.

 

If it makes sense.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I feel like we pose this question every offseason and every offseason we proceed to dig an even bigger hole. I'm in favor of re-signing Cobb (to a 1 year deal) and Iglesias and calling it a day.

[BTH]

Yes.

If the organization wants to improve at the big league level while also re-stocking the farm system, they need to go full 2013-2017 Dodgers mode, where they improve the big league roster through a bunch of free agent signings and blow past normal payroll levels while not needing to trade prospects to improve the roster.

[tdawg87]

25 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

I feel like we pose this question every offseason and every offseason we proceed to dig an even bigger hole. I'm in favor of re-signing Cobb (to a 1 year deal) and Iglesias and calling it a day.

Sweet!

[Jason]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Arte would have to raise the payroll by like 60 million. 

Is it unrealistic? Yes. But is it stupid? Yes.

Not my money.

Arte cares more about the business than he does about winning. I don’t see him raising payroll to accomplish what this team needs to compete. The only way the Halos compete is if the guys they draft develop into top tier talent. 

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Arte would have to raise the payroll by like 60 million. 

Is it unrealistic? Yes. But is it stupid? Yes.

Not my money.

I don't think we need that much of a hike. A $30m raise to take the budget to the tax threshold of $210m for a season or two would give Perry $80m - $85m for pitching, short-stop and a few fill-ins this off-season. Add in some of the farm capital for trades and the Angels could land someone like Scherzer for three years, plus another starter in trade; plus Raisel; and a reliable set-up guy; and still have $25m to $30m left for SS and a couple of Joe's favourite good clubhouse guys. 

Upton's money after next year goes to Ohtani, so that gives you three years of contention through Trout and Ohtani's prime until the big contracts start dropping off and the next wave of farmhands come through (Paris; Knowles; Vera; Adams etc).

[greginpsca]

The market will dictate whether "all in" can happen. We need pitching! But, i don't see the Dogs letting Mad Max get away. Nor do i see the Giants letting Gausman or Desclafani go elsewhere. The BlueJays need pitching. Don't see them letting Ray get away. The only pitcher of interest that i think will be available is Stroman. And he will be expensive. the Mets will want him back, but, they're the Mets. Seems like the Angels payroll for the last 5+ years has been in the $180 m- 185m range.  A whole lot of wishing isn't going to make that budget go up.

[Chuck]

30 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

I feel like we pose this question every offseason and every offseason we proceed to dig an even bigger hole. I'm in favor of re-signing Cobb (to a 1 year deal) and Iglesias and calling it a day.

While I'm fine with both of those additions, the team needs to sign a couple of the second tier arms (Stroman, Syndergaard, Greinke) or one top tier (Scherzer, Ray, Gausman).

Then sign a couple relievers like Hector Neris and Ian Kennedy. 

If you really want to blow through the luxury tax, sign one of the top SS free agents. I would prefer Seager or Semien. 

[Docwaukee]

payroll isn't going up.  Or at least everyone should assume that.  If it happens then great.  If they're gonna go 'all in' then you would need to consider ways of doing so without more money.  

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

If they're gonna go 'all in' then you would need to consider ways of doing so without more money.  

That's not going "all in"

[tdawg87]

Doc has never been to a casino.

[AngelsFaninGA]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

While I'm fine with both of those additions, the team needs to sign a couple of the second tier arms (Stroman, Syndergaard, Greinke) or one top tier (Scherzer, Ray, Gausman).

Then sign a couple relievers like Hector Neris and Ian Kennedy. 

If you really want to blow through the luxury tax, sign one of the top SS free agents. I would prefer Seager or Semien. 

It mostly stems from my complete lack of faith in this org's ability to scout the free agent market (like we'd honestly have been better off targeting players drawn out of a hat than who we've signed over the last few years). Coupled that with the emergence of our farm system, I'd rather just see us rely on the young guys.

The only free agents I'd consider are Scherzer and maybe Verlander (for 1 or 2 years) just because of their overwhelming track record. Of course Pujols had an airtight track record too... 

[Junkballer]

I'd be happy is they spent to just under the tax threshold on their primary off-season needs (not an elite SS) and went all-in at the trade deadline, assuming they are not just in competition for a wild card but in contention for the division title. 

Off-season: just the tip; Trade Deadline: All-In. 

Being that all-in can mean different things in different circumstances, I'll say that in this scenario it means spending prospect capital at the deadline to fill holes and augment the pitching staff, without devastating the farm.  And going above the tax threshold, at that TD point, to the extent that they can become a non-taxed team (increased threshold in new CBA) in 2023.

[Torridd]

2 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

Ohtani is slap bang in his prime; Trout is approaching the end of his and may already be declining, our elite 3rd baseman Rendon will be 32 next year. We have the outfield we've been talking about for years in Adell, Trout and Marsh, and an infield set on both sides of the ball aside from Short-stop (where we have promising youngsters only a season or two away).

We finally have a conveyor belt of promising pitching coming up from the minors, with three (or four if you include Canning) ready for the rotation to add to Ohtani's ace-like arm, and some interesting guys for the bullpen.

Surely now, this off-season, is the time to go all-in. To use some of the farm depth we've built up for trades and to blow the budget open for a year until Upton is off the books to put the pieces around Trout, Ohtani and a very good supporting cast that are needed to make the Angels genuine contenders.

I can't see how the window will be any more open in 2023 than it is for 2022: the time is now. 

 

I agree and add the futility of past years in not only bad luck, but in not getting the pitching we've needed, and Arte has to feel personal pressure. Despite the downer of this year, we were shown the youth potential of many players. Management needs to go all in and, at minimum, get two solid starters ( I don't mean Cobb) and either  re-sign Iglesias or get an equivalent stopper. They can piddle around with the the rest of the bullpen and patch that up. They have to secure the core pieces. Personally, I don't think shortstop and catcher need to be big additions with the current team we have.  If Arte feels the need to get a big shortstop but doesn't get the pitching, I think he deserves all the abuse he'd get. 

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

I feel like we pose this question every offseason and every offseason we proceed to dig an even bigger hole. I'm in favor of re-signing Cobb (to a 1 year deal) and Iglesias and calling it a day.

Not enough by a longshot.

[Torridd]

57 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

The market will dictate whether "all in" can happen. We need pitching! But, i don't see the Dogs letting Mad Max get away. Nor do i see the Giants letting Gausman or Desclafani go elsewhere. The BlueJays need pitching. Don't see them letting Ray get away. The only pitcher of interest that i think will be available is Stroman. And he will be expensive. the Mets will want him back, but, they're the Mets. Seems like the Angels payroll for the last 5+ years has been in the $180 m- 185m range.  A whole lot of wishing isn't going to make that budget go up.

Interesting take. Who do you think has more potential to win? The Angels or Mets? I'd say the Angels although the Mets have an easier division.

[Torridd]

46 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

payroll isn't going up.  Or at least everyone should assume that.  If it happens then great.  If they're gonna go 'all in' then you would need to consider ways of doing so without more money.  

How do you go all in without more money?

[Torridd]

43 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

It mostly stems from my complete lack of faith in this org's ability to scout the free agent market (like we'd honestly have been better off targeting players drawn out of a hat than who we've signed over the last few years). Coupled that with the emergence of our farm system, I'd rather just see us rely on the young guys.

The only free agents I'd consider are Scherzer and maybe Verlander (for 1 or 2 years) just because of their overwhelming track record. Of course Pujols had an airtight track record too... 

I'd rather not gamble on Verlander.

[Revad]

49 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Doc has never been to a casino.

Does that also mean no strip clubs or blow of a woman’s tummy (there are better places).