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With all that went wrong


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23 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels would have had a very different deadline If Trout and Rendon were healthy. 

In a way I am almost glad the season went the way it did because the temptation would have been to trade away a good part of the future for probably a rental. This wasn't a world series constructed team. Your scenario vaults them into the playoffs but next year and those after, what did it cost?

Minasian now has all of his top prospects and some cash to work with and not nearly as many roster holes to fill if they give Adell or Marsh one of the outfield spots to start the year and gamble a little on Rengifo as the shortstop. Although there may not be enough glove to justify waiting for him to hit. 

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On 10/3/2021 at 5:16 PM, UndertheHalo said:

If memory serves weren’t they pretty shitty when Trout and Rendon(barely) played.  Rendon was having a pretty terrible year.  No bullpen, extremely inconsistent starting pitching.  This wasn’t a playoff team.  They would have had a crappier draft pick and that’s it.  It would have been better if they lost even more. 

The starters were shitty because of Contreras, Bundy. Canning AND Heaney were shitty.  

When they got demoted we went with Sandavol, Suarez, and Barria.   The starting pitching was pretty solid.  Add Ohtani and Cobb we had 6 starters with sub 4 ERA performances. 

CROD, Diaz were also under 4 ERA and Junk was 4.16.

 

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52 minutes ago, stormngt said:

The starters were shitty because of Contreras, Bundy. Canning AND Heaney were shitty.  

When they got demoted we went with Sandavol, Suarez, and Barria.   The starting pitching was pretty solid.  Add Ohtani and Cobb we had 6 starters with sub 4 ERA performances. 

CROD, Diaz were also under 4 ERA and Junk was 4.16.

 

As good as the starting pitching rebounded, the problem remains that we only had one pitcher pitch more than 100 innings, Ohtani.  We definitely need some starters who can go 150-200 innings, and take some of the pressure off the bullpen.

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4 hours ago, stormngt said:

The starters were shitty because of Contreras, Bundy. Canning AND Heaney were shitty.  

When they got demoted we went with Sandavol, Suarez, and Barria.   The starting pitching was pretty solid.  Add Ohtani and Cobb we had 6 starters with sub 4 ERA performances. 

CROD, Diaz were also under 4 ERA and Junk was 4.16.

 

I guess.  I honestly haven’t looked that far into it.  

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With a healthy (and close to career expectations) Trout, Rendon and Upton, Ohtani (batting first or second) scores + 120 runs, steals 35 + drives in  70 - 80. Homers 25 - 30. And 25% +  or so fewer walks. Also fewer strikeouts.

The entire psychology of pitching to the lineup changes. And Ohtani's role changes. His priority is getting on base and in scoring position. Therefore less chasing pitches and trying for homers. More line drives, stolen bases, taking extra bases. 

When the season started he wasn't feared. Trout was the obvious power  threat, Rendon was the high average threat and Upton was there to add power behind Trout. As we're Pujols and/or Walsh at the start of the year  Ohtani's earlier seasons at the plate didn't predict this sort of production. Most probably expected maybe 25 or so homers max. 

Obviously nothing worked out as planned. But Ohtani as the consummate professional would have adapted to prioritizing getting on base and scoring position. 

Also the game plan against the Angels would be to avoid walking him ahead of the power behind him. He probably still strikes out a lot, but not as much. It's easier to make contact when swinging for hits and moving runners than going for the fences. And that responsibility maybe cuts down in his swing and brings more discipline.

But now that he has set a new bar for himself, fans expect him to be a slugger first and foremost. Think back to the all star game and how it messed him up for a lot of the second half. Best thing would be for some rethinking of the lineup. But that presumes that Trout (likely)  Rendon (unknown) and Upton (unlikely) revert to career form. Add in Walsh as a big upgrade from Pujols and Adell and Marsh as probable lineup additions on either a semi regular, platoon or part time basis, and Fletcher back in form. And it's a pretty formable hitting lineup for Ohtani to fit into. 

Keep him second in the order, don't restrict his natural focus on power in general, but situationally (especially at the start of games, close score games) he can aim for getting on base, stealing if appropriate, and letting the guys behind him drive him in. 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, tomsred said:

As good as the starting pitching rebounded, the problem remains that we only had one pitcher pitch more than 100 innings, Ohtani.  We definitely need some starters who can go 150-200 innings, and take some of the pressure off the bullpen.

Agreed, but how much of the limited innings was because Joe Maddons quick hook?

Or because two starters had to wait until the gave up on Contreras, Heaney and Bundy before they moved into the rotation.

We need to stop signing vets who can't get the job done.  I agree we need another TOR pitcher and would like Cobb back.  However if we are worried about innings maybe we shouldn't bring Cobb back.

 

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21 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

With a healthy (and close to career expectations) Trout, Rendon and Upton, Ohtani (batting first or second) scores + 120 runs, steals 35 + drives in  70 - 80. Homers 25 - 30. And 25% +  or so fewer walks. Also fewer strikeouts.

The entire psychology of pitching to the lineup changes. And Ohtani's role changes. His priority is getting on base and in scoring position. Therefore less chasing pitches and trying for homers. More line drives, stolen bases, taking extra bases. 

When the season started he wasn't feared. Trout was the obvious power  threat, Rendon was the high average threat and Upton was there to add power behind Trout. As we're Pujols and/or Walsh at the start of the year  Ohtani's earlier seasons at the plate didn't predict this sort of production. Most probably expected maybe 25 or so homers max. 

Obviously nothing worked out as planned. But Ohtani as the consummate professional would have adapted to prioritizing getting on base and scoring position. 

Also the game plan against the Angels would be to avoid walking him ahead of the power behind him. He probably still strikes out a lot, but not as much. It's easier to make contact when swinging for hits and moving runners than going for the fences. And that responsibility maybe cuts down in his swing and brings more discipline.

But now that he has set a new bar for himself, fans expect him to be a slugger first and foremost. Think back to the all star game and how it messed him up for a lot of the second half. Best thing would be for some rethinking of the lineup. But that presumes that Trout (likely)  Rendon (unknown) and Upton (unlikely) revert to career form. Add in Walsh as a big upgrade from Pujols and Adell and Marsh as probable lineup additions on either a semi regular, platoon or part time basis, and Fletcher back in form. And it's a pretty formable hitting lineup for Ohtani to fit into. 

Keep him second in the order, don't restrict his natural focus on power in general, but situationally (especially at the start of games, close score games) he can aim for getting on base, stealing if appropriate, and letting the guys behind him drive him in. 

As amazing as Ohtani's year at the plate was, I agree it would have been even better with more formidable bats behind him.  I have no doubt he would have exceeded 50 HRs and had a higher OPS had Trout and/or Rendon stayed healthy and produced to their typical level.  Also, I think he was under a lot of (self-imposed) pressure to make things happen due to Trout/Rendon being out.  While I don't fully agree about the HR Derby thing, I think it's a given that he will be rested more with Trout/Rendon on board and thereby will be less likely to have a prolonged slump.

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16 hours ago, stormngt said:

The starters were shitty because of Contreras, Bundy. Canning AND Heaney were shitty.  

When they got demoted we went with Sandavol, Suarez, and Barria.   The starting pitching was pretty solid.  Add Ohtani and Cobb we had 6 starters with sub 4 ERA performances. 

CROD, Diaz were also under 4 ERA and Junk was 4.16.

 

I think you mean Quintana instead of Contreras, but if there was a Contreras he probably would have been shitty too, so your point remains valid.

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