With all that went wrong

[ten ocho recon scout]

S Pitching issues aside. Bullpen issues aside. Defense issues aside.

How many more games do we win with Trout and Rendon healthy this season?

Is it realistic, going back to April, when the "this team is special" thread had some seeing this team as a 90 win squad?

 

[Stradling]

If nothing else was different and just Trout and Rendon added this could have been an 85 win team. 

[Angelsjunky]

You know my answer. But it is also borne out by numbers. Even if Trout had produced a "sub-par" (for him 8 WAR season, and Rendon a measly 4 WAR, that's about 10 wins added. 87-75, rather than 77-85. And if both had been vintage, we're looking at 90 wins.

Not to mention other factors.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

You know my answer. But it is also borne out by numbers. Even if Trout had produced a "sub-par" (for him 8 WAR season, and Rendon a measly 4 WAR, that's about 10 wins added. 87-75, rather than 77-85. And if both had been vintage, we're looking at 90 wins.

Not to mention other factors.

Thats what im thinking...

Didnt even really consider it the past few months until i looked at the wild card standings right now.

I also wonder what Ohtanis season numbers would have been.

[AngelsLakersFan]

It probably could've been a high 80's win team... but then you gotta look at just how lucky they'd have been to be there... No major injuries and a Mariners-like run differential.

[Vlad27Trout27]

You add a healthy trout and rendon, Sandoval and Cobb stay healthy, with the addion of wantz and Warren into the Bp, I could see us being in a similar spot to Seattle and the blue jays

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Thats what im thinking...

Didnt even really consider it the past few months until i looked at the wild card standings right now.

I also wonder what Ohtanis season numbers would have been.

Well, it does make you think just how much swing is involved each year, or how a single signing or two could make a huge difference. I mean, just based on WAR, imagine if we had a healthy peak Trout (9 WAR), healthy peak Rendon (6 WAR) and had signed Zack Wheeler a couple years ago (7 WAR), rather than giving 200 innings to shlubs like Quintana and Bundy. That's about +18 WAR, which brings the team to 95 wins.

Now WAR doesn't necessarily translate to wins, but it is supposed to. There's luck, timeliness, and lots of other factors. But my point is, just by keeping two guys healthy and adding another, the team coulda been a contender.

[Erstad Grit]

Well in this fictitious world are the injured players on other teams still injured or are they healthy as well? 

[stormngt]

40 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

S Pitching issues aside. Bullpen issues aside. Defense issues aside.

How many more games do we win with Trout and Rendon healthy this season?

Is it realistic, going back to April, when the "this team is special" thread had some seeing this team as a 90 win squad?

 

With a healthy Trout, Rendon Cobb

And a full season of Suarez Sandoval and Barria instead of Contreras, Bundy, Canning and Heaney 

This team is a wild card team.  Lock down bullpen and we give the Astros a run for their money.

Edited October 3, 2021 by stormngt

[Docwaukee]

I think they add at the deadline if this team were healthy and within 3 or so games.  I'm also not sure they shut down various guys or trade Heaney and Watson.  Who know if that would have been good or bad.  But overall, I think we're at about 85 wins or so if Trout and Rendon are in for the year.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Well in this fictitious world are the injured players on other teams still injured or are they healthy as well? 

This is obviously a fair point.

But the fact we won 78 games without Trout is I think pretty telling. Because it isnt like it was just trout.

 

I dont know of any other playoff team that lost the same value of trout and rendon.

[AngelStew43]

With a healthy Trout and Rendon, Ohtani doesn't get pitched around for most of August and September.  Better health overall, I still think that this group, with a tweak here and there, is a playoff team.  

Add a healthy Ace pitcher, and I know we'd have won 90 or more. 

[Inside Pitch]

As bad as this season was, today the AP contract is officially behind them.

You gotta call that a win.

[Redondo]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

As bad as this season was, today the AP contract is officially behind them.

You gotta call that a win.

Finally!

[khouse]

Ima gonna guess that it will be this kind of talk/thought that will likely make Arte's wallet pucker. But, here's to hoping not...

[Vlad27Trout27]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

As bad as this season was, today the AP contract is officially behind them.

You gotta call that a win.

wooWoooWoooo

 

Now just one for year of upton....and hopefully Rendon rebounds

[HanfordGuy]

Well if they were healthy, the Angels probably win 90 games and are buyers at the trade deadline adding pitching and even more wins.

"If ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ were candy and nuts, wouldn't it be a Merry Christmas?"

[HanfordGuy]

45 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

[UndertheHalo]

If memory serves weren’t they pretty shitty when Trout and Rendon(barely) played.  Rendon was having a pretty terrible year.  No bullpen, extremely inconsistent starting pitching.  This wasn’t a playoff team.  They would have had a crappier draft pick and that’s it.  It would have been better if they lost even more. 

[Blarg]

I think it a little funny that you guys focus on Trout and Rendon and forget that Upton missed nearly half the season as well, leaving a gap that was filled by crap. Upton's first half was an .816 OPS. That was replaced by guys like Gosselin, Lagares and Rojas that couldn't play to .700 OPS. The one bright spot was watching Adell catch fire but he too was shelved because of a freak injury. 

Put Trout, Rendon and Upton healthy in the lineup this whole year and they can absorb Fowler going down the first month and not suffer a complete power outage at the plate. The Angels had two hitters, Ohtani and Walsh and both hit pretty long dry spells in the 2nd half with no one on the roster that could pick up the slack.

BTW, Walsh hitting 29 home runs is the first time we had that much production from 1st base since 2015. And you have to go back to Pujols 1st season with the Angels to match his OPS. That is how much of a black hole Albert had created over the last 5 years while managers were tied to playing him because of salary reasons. 

Can the Angels do better next season? Just by returning players on the roster healthy and ejecting garbage like Bundy, Heaney and Quintana the pitching will be far superior by just filling those holes with the guys we've already seen from the minors. Yeah, they could use another top of the rotation guy but at least the floor will be raised by a bunch of young arms that showed they can keep the team in the game for 5-6 innings.

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not to mention other factors.

Like a certain "magical" post.

[yk9001]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

You know my answer. But it is also borne out by numbers. Even if Trout had produced a "sub-par" (for him 8 WAR season, and Rendon a measly 4 WAR, that's about 10 wins added. 87-75, rather than 77-85. And if both had been vintage, we're looking at 90 wins.

Not to mention other factors.

Did the players who replaced Trout and Rendon produce any WAR?  I actually don't know the answer.  

If they did produce positive WAR, wouldn't that have to be subtracted from your imaginary equation?

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

If memory serves weren’t they pretty shitty when Trout and Rendon(barely) played.  Rendon was having a pretty terrible year.  No bullpen, extremely inconsistent starting pitching.  This wasn’t a playoff team.  They would have had a crappier draft pick and that’s it.  It would have been better if they lost even more. 

Rendon was having a terrible year because he was never healthy.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, yk9001 said:

Did the players who replaced Trout and Rendon produce any WAR?  I actually don't know the answer.  

If they did produce positive WAR, wouldn't that have to be subtracted from your imaginary equation?

So I just looked up the four primary replacements for Trout and Rendon, that would be Marsh, Lagares, Gosselin and Mayfield.  I added up their WAR and believe it or not according to baseball reference going into today’s game the four combined when you add up their WAR came to exactly 0.0 WAR.  

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Rendon was having a terrible year because he was never healthy.  

I guess.  Maybe