Who should the Angels #1 starting pitcher free agent target be?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

No reading comprehension issue at all.  I made a point and, be honest, you understood exactly what my point was, didn’t you?

Yes your point was it’s ok to trade Detmers or anyone else if it helps the team win now.  You seem to think all Angel fans over value our own players.  I will tell you that I’m not ok trading six years of Detmers for two years of Castillo.  Now if you want to do what you do and pretend that means my offer is Ward and as he let, go for it.  It makes you the fool not me. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes your point was it’s ok to trade Detmers or anyone else if it helps the team win now.  You seem to think all Angel fans over value our own players.  I will tell you that I’m not ok trading six years of Detmers for two years of Castillo.  Now if you want to do what you do and pretend that means my offer is Ward and as he let, go for it.  It makes you the fool not me. 

The point was simple.  You said don’t trade for Castillo if it costs arms.

That was the absurd fantasy Strad.  So I “accepted” your absurd fantasy by saying “yes let’s get Castillo by trading Ward, etc.”

If you want to dig into what was foolish, it was the idea you can trade for Castillo without trading any young pitching.

Do you think the Angels are really going to not trade arms after drafting 20 pitchers?

Maybe this front office understands that the teams trading a stud starter want upside young arms in return, and has now drafted accordingly.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

The point was simple.  You said don’t trade for Castillo if it costs arms.

That was the absurd fantasy Strad.  So I “accepted” your absurd fantasy by saying “yes let’s get Castillo by trading Ward, etc.”

If you want to dig into what was foolish, it was the idea you can trade for Castillo without trading any young pitching.

Do you think the Angels are really going to not trade arms after drafting 20 pitchers?

Maybe this front office understands that the teams trading a stud starter want upside young arms in return, and has now drafted accordingly.

I said don’t trade for Castillo if it costs arms just to save a few bucks versus signing free agents. 

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I said don’t trade for Castillo if it costs arms just to save a few bucks versus signing free agents. 

Well that makes more sense.  I don’t care about saving money and I don’t care about hoarding a quantity of arms instead of landing exactly what the team needs.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[AngelStew43]

I voted for Scherzer.  I think this organization needs to hand Max a check, and let him fill it in.

That vote aside, I don't expect Max to leave the Dodgers, so Ray and Verlander.    

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Want Scherzer, May end up with Thor, We could have had Rodon for cheap as the White Sox DFA at the beginning of last year! We will end up with a scrub who will take Arte's Dinero and run for the hills with his arm in a icepack.

 

Actually, One of Scherzer, Thor, Stroman and an additional like a  Jon Gray - Rockie would be ok. His #'s are good enough. I look for 3-1 K's to BB's and he is at that mark. 150K's to 58BB's. And his WHIP is back to 1.317 which is better than his career #'s -.2. He has been playing on a bad rookie filled team. His #'s would be better here also. 

That is if we upgrade the Shortstop position! Or, quit with the over shifts.  

[TheHeathen]

If these are the best options, then we're fucked.

[Stax]

They should target a pitching coach first.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, TheHeathen said:

If these are the best options, then we're fucked.

You are joking, right?

[Angel Oracle]

12 hours ago, Stax said:

They should target a pitching coach first.

Matt Wise isn’t it.

[jsnpritchett]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Matt Wise isn’t it.

Several people on here have said something similar, but honestly, who knows?  Evaluating pitching coaches isn't an exact science.  Is it Wise's fault that the bullpen was largely a collection of has-beens/never-weres/never-will-bes?  Does he get any credit for the big steps forward that Suarez and Sandoval took this year?  Does he get credit for Cobb returning to form?  Does he get credit for Othani's strong performance?  Do we blame him for Bundy turning back into a pumpkin, or do we look back on the limited sample size from last year and say that he was probably not that good to begin with?  Do we ding him for Canning's regression?   I have no idea how to answer any one of those questions, let alone all of them. 

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Matt Wise isn’t it.

How do you know he "isn't it"?

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

How do you know he "isn't it"?

Just by the fact he was thrown into it thanks to Callaway being a jerk.

This staff needs an experienced guy, given its’ mostly lack of experience.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[greginpsca]

17 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Just by the fact he was thrown into it thanks to Callaway being a jerk.

This staff needs an experienced guy, given its’ mostly lack of experience.

He use to be the Angels minor league pitching coordinator.  He has probably worked with most of the pitchers in the farm system, before being thrown into the pitching coach role. So he does have a bit of experience.

[Stax]

26 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

He use to be the Angels minor league pitching coordinator.  He has probably worked with most of the pitchers in the farm system, before being thrown into the pitching coach role. So he does have a bit of experience.

Wise being a minor league pitching coorinator and a major league pitching coach is two different things. In the minors he is teaching maybe even a father figure. In the majors, these guys made it, Wise has to to figure out what makes the pitcher tick. what buttons to push. That could be the difference between Cobb and Bundy.  Maybe if Callaway was the pitching coach they may of had a better/winning record, experience counts.

[Stradling]

We are forgetting that Matt Wise was the Angels bullpen coach last year.  It is a natural progression to go from Major League Bullpen Coach to Major League Pitching Coach.  With the uncertainty of what was going on with Callaway, Wise was the obvious choice.  If it wasn’t Wise then it was going to be Butcher, but even then you are bringing someone in that has no knowledge of the pitchers he is working with, oh and doing it either right before the season starts or early in the season.  I think there is a really good chance that since Butcher is with the club now in some consulting role we will see him back as pitching coach next season.  If he isn’t and it is Wise, then the team thinks he did a good job in the role.  They would know better than we would know, since we literally are going off of results and not the process.

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Just by the fact he was thrown into it thanks to Callaway being a jerk.

This staff needs an experienced guy, given its’ mostly lack of experience.

Why does it need an experienced guy? An experienced pitching coach didn't work with Nagy or Callaway.

Also, who says Wise isn't experienced? He was the bullpen coach in '20 and was the minor league pitching coordinator for years. He's familiar with the Sandoval's, Suarez's, Barria's, Warren's, Wantz's, etc.

[BTH]

Since Mike Butcher is back in the organization, I do think it's a fair question to wonder whether he's the next pitching coach of the Angels. But I do think that Maddon really likes Wise.

[BTH]

After watching Noah Syndergaard's first start back from TJ surgery, I'm all aboard the Syndergaard train.

He has elite stuff, he's young, and he'll be cheaper than he would've been had he been healthy.

It's a gamble worth taking. He has ace type stuff.

Give him 5/$125.

[Lou]

20 minutes ago, Trendon said:

After watching Noah Syndergaard's first start back from TJ surgery, I'm all aboard the Syndergaard train.

He has elite stuff, he's young, and he'll be cheaper than he would've been had he been healthy.

It's a gamble worth taking. He has ace type stuff.

Give him 5/$125.

He pitched 1 inning.

[eligrba4ever]

The top pitcher the Angels should go out and get this offseason is two actual aces.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

7 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Several people on here have said something similar, but honestly, who knows?  Evaluating pitching coaches isn't an exact science.  Is it Wise's fault that the bullpen was largely a collection of has-beens/never-weres/never-will-bes?  Does he get any credit for the big steps forward that Suarez and Sandoval took this year?  Does he get credit for Cobb returning to form?  Does he get credit for Othani's strong performance?  Do we blame him for Bundy turning back into a pumpkin, or do we look back on the limited sample size from last year and say that he was probably not that good to begin with?  Do we ding him for Canning's regression?   I have no idea how to answer any one of those questions, let alone all of them. 

Pitching Coaches job is still to place each individual in the bullpen and starting rotation in their best spots to be successful so the TEAM WINS GAMES! Bottom line. Bundy's thing last year was a CHANGE IN SCENERY and SUCCESS on the MOUND... Hence the decline this year! 

It's all relative! If you have never been a part of it. When it goes bad and the stink is there it gets worse!

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

Why does it need an experienced guy? An experienced pitching coach didn't work with Nagy or Callaway.

Also, who says Wise isn't experienced? He was the bullpen coach in '20 and was the minor league pitching coordinator for years. He's familiar with the Sandoval's, Suarez's, Barria's, Warren's, Wantz's, etc.

Well, to be honest Callaway due to the sexual harassment among other things never got the chance to come to fruition. The Nagy side is meh and the other clown from the Astros was even more so ALT RIGHT/LEFT..  This team is the worst at over correcting! 

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

He pitched 1 inning.

yes, I know.

 

After I saw that he was pitching and saw his outing, I dug deeper into the stats.

My post wasn't based soley on that 1 inning, which is obviously a small sample size.

I just hadn't really looked deeply into Syndergaard's stats and arsenal until that point. Once I did, I realized that he should be a top free agent SP target for the Angels.

[T.G.]

Scherzer was hammered for the second straight start last night.