David Fletcher's Offense

[jsnpritchett]

Fletcher has the 2nd worst OPS of any qualified player (i.e., 3.1 PA per team game) in the AL. The only player who is lower is Elvis Andrus. Because of the differences in ballparks, Fletcher's OPS+ is actually lower. Congrats, David! 

[Blarg]

Swing at everything and hope it lands safely. He needs a new approach. 

[Angel Oracle]

Is still very offensive to Halos fans

.115 BA since August 25

Even Kelenic wasn’t that bad his first month.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Taylor]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:19 PM, Angelsjunky said:

That joke stopped being funny in the Obama era. You need new material. 

cals finds a joke and sticks with it for years, long past the sell-by date.

[totdprods]

When you make as much contact as Fletcher does, it'll always be hard for him to really fall into an offensive floor that is truly abysmal. This isn't surprising. Until he can bump his BB% to 8%-10%, he's going to be tied to how many singles fall in. He did it in '19 and '20, so he is capable. He'll get enough singles to rarely be below a .250 guy, and that's the same reason he could be a .330 guy.

And even if he doesn't grow into a guy who walks more or hits for more power, as long as he maintains his defense, his versatility, and his extreme high-contact, he will be useful, he'll just need to be utilized less as a lead-off hitter and more as a #9 hitter, or perhaps contextually as a #2 hitter or #7-8 hitter to move along a speedier, OBP guy who is ahead of him, like Ohtani, Marsh, Adell, etc. If he was in a lineup position where it didn't really matter if he got a hit, but instead kept the count alive long enough to allow a runner to steal a base, or to pair with a preceding bat for good hit-and-run opportunities, he'll still pull in some offensive contribution that isn't necessarily going to be reflected in his OPS.

Like a lot of the team's offensive struggles in the second half, I think this is more about a guy pressing to do more because everyone else is out. Ohtani, Walsh, and Fletcher have had to carry this offense pretty much all season, and they've all pressed at times as a result.

Edited September 27, 2021 by totdprods

[jsnpritchett]

18 minutes ago, totdprods said:

When you make as much contact as Fletcher does, it'll always be hard for him to really fall into an offensive floor that is truly abysmal. This isn't surprising. Until he can bump his BB% to 8%-10%, he's going to be tied to how many singles fall in. He did it in '19 and '20, so he is capable. He'll get enough singles to rarely be below a .250 guy, and that's the same reason he could be a .330 guy.

And even if he doesn't grow into a guy who walks more or hits for more power, as long as he maintains his defense, his versatility, and his extreme high-contact, he will be useful, he'll just need to be utilized less as a lead-off hitter and more as a #9 hitter, or perhaps contextually as a #2 hitter or #7-8 hitter to move along a speedier, OBP guy who is ahead of him, like Ohtani, Marsh, Adell, etc. If he was in a lineup position where it didn't really matter if he got a hit, but instead kept the count alive long enough to allow a runner to steal a base, or to pair with a preceding bat for good hit-and-run opportunities, he'll still pull in some offensive contribution that isn't necessarily going to be reflected in his OPS.

Like a lot of the team's offensive struggles in the second half, I think this is more about a guy pressing to do more because everyone else is out. Ohtani, Walsh, and Fletcher have had to carry this offense pretty much all season, and they've all pressed at times as a result.

He had an OPS in the 500s over the first 60 games of the season.  What was his excuse then?

[totdprods]

48 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

He had an OPS in the 500s over the first 60 games of the season.  What was his excuse then?

I mean, it wasn't really meant as an excuse. He can arrive at the same results due to his limits for different reasons. 
In those first 60 games, he still didn't walk, he didn't hit for power. He still hit .255 which was above average. 
In his hot streak, he walked a little more, but didn't hit for much power, and he was phenomenal. 
Now he's sucking again, and he's the exact same player - not walking, no power. 

Fletcher will live and die by singles falling in until he either walks consistently at 8%+, or discovers a little more sock to punch in more doubles.

This all just gets to my point about how he's used. His current offensive profile is fine when he's a piece of a fully functioning line-up, in a role where his elite contact puts him in a position to move runners. 
Even if his OPS isn't robust, he can still do a lot for the team's offense if used correct, or when he's in a hot streak, sure, put him at lead-off.
When he's your "third-best" hitter and you need him to draw walks or hit for power as a counter to the times his slaps aren't falling in, you're in trouble.

Same hitter, same pluses, same minuses, different context because of the players around him.

[Dtwncbad]

Bottom line is David Fletcher is nothing special.

Nice story.  Blue collar hard worker good teammate etc etc.

Cool.  But how someone actually is as a player is almost always going to drastically override those little warms and fuzzy feeling things.

I pull for him and he is easy to pull for.  But the sample size is large enough now to be honest.

He really is nothing special.  I wouldn’t hesitate to include him in a deal (likely with young arms) to get the pitching the Angels need if the other team was enamored with him.

Seems like there was a time not too long ago when Angel fans were adamant about Fletcher being untouchable because he was such a great value.

Those days are either gone or should be gone.

[eligrba]

David Fletcher offense is an oxymoron.

[rottiesworld]

It seems the Angels give a player a new contract and they seem to choke.

[ScottT]

Shut him down!

[ScottT]

Mang, you people be angry.

[beatlesrule]

According to bWAR, he was worth his 2 million dollar salary with a 1.8. According to FWAR, he was not with a 0.3. He could improve with 6 games to go I suppose but I doubt it.

[ScottT]

He's fine.

Y'all nuts.

[WicketMaiden]

19 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Bottom line is David Fletcher is nothing special.

David Fletcher stats 2021:

1st in the American League for AB's per Strikeout

1st for Fielding % at 2B

2nd for Range Factor at 2B

2nd for Assists 

2nd for Put-Outs at 2B

3rd for Double Plays turned

4th for Sacrifice Hits

Yes, nothing special there at all. 

[Blarg]

1st for swing at pitches over his head

1st at swing at ball 1,2,3,4 no where near the strikezone

 

[WicketMaiden]

34 minutes ago, Blarg said:

1st for swing at pitches over his head

1st at swing at ball 1,2,3,4 no where near the strikezone

 

Link? Mine were all from Baseball Reference, yours? I imagine straight out of your arse.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

Link? Mine were all from Baseball Reference, yours? I imagine straight out of your arse.

OPS+ 71

League average OBP .316

Fletcher’s OBP .300

If you aren’t going to hit for any power you have to be well above league average in OBP. 

[WicketMaiden]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

OPS+ 71

League average OBP .316

Fletcher’s OBP .300

If you aren’t going to hit for any power you have to be well above league average in OBP. 

How is this relevant to my post? I responded to one poster saying "David Fletcher is nothing special" highlighting the areas where he quite clearly is; and then to another whom was just making stuff up to suit their narrative - what has that got to do with his OBP?

[Stradling]

Just now, WicketMaiden said:

How is this relevant to my post? I responded to one poster saying "David Fletcher is nothing special" highlighting the areas where he quite clearly is; and then to another whom was just making stuff up to suit their narrative - what has that got to do with his OBP?

This thread is about his offense. His offense this year is far from special. Also it was just more facts from bref pointing out his poor season. He has the same OPS as Albert as an Angel this year. 

[WicketMaiden]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This thread is about his offense. His offense this year is far from special. Also it was just more facts from bref pointing out his poor season. He has the same OPS as Albert as an Angel this year. 

So, you agree, nothing at all to do my posts. Thanks. I can see why you may want to post that info, all very relevant to the thread, but not to my posts.

[Revad]

4 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

David Fletcher stats 2021:

1st in the American League for AB's per Strikeout

1st for Fielding % at 2B

2nd for Range Factor at 2B

2nd for Assists 

2nd for Put-Outs at 2B

3rd for Double Plays turned

4th for Sacrifice Hits

6th for Outs Made

Yes, nothing special there at all. 

I think we should keep this player.

[jsnpritchett]

20 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

How is this relevant to my post? I responded to one poster saying "David Fletcher is nothing special" highlighting the areas where he quite clearly is; and then to another whom was just making stuff up to suit their narrative - what has that got to do with his OBP?

I'm not sure that being 6th in outs made is "special" in Fletcher's case.  People who lead in that category tend to be guys who play a lot, don't walk a ton, and/or play on high-offense teams.  Of the guys in the top 10 in the AL in outs made this year, Fletcher is having by far the least productive offensive season.  He's making a bunch of outs without creating any other value from what he does offensively.  Same for his league-leading AB/K ratio: he's not striking out in part because he swings at everything (he's dead last in the AL in pitches-seen per plate appearance).

[Angelsjunky]

I think its pretty simple. Either this is an off-year or its a reversion to his true talent level. if the former, all is good and he should bounce back to being a 3 WAR player. If its the latter, then he's going to end up being a utility player once the Angels have someone better to replace him with. The only real candidates that could see major league time next year are Michael Stefanic and Brandon Davis, both of whom are still considered rather fringy. It is going to be 2-3 years before guys like Jeremiah Jackson, Kyren Paris, and Arol Vera are ready.

That said, I'm not overly concerned about giving the middle infield to Fletcher, Stefanic, Davis, Rengifo, and maybe Barreto for the next two years, considering how the rest of the lineup should look (assuming health). Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Walsh and Stassi are all good or better hitters, and Marsh and Adell are getting there. Meaning, the larger concern is not how good Fletcher is, but whether or not the big bats can stay healthy.

[BTH]

42 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think its pretty simple. Either this is an off-year or its a reversion to his true talent level. if the former, all is good and he should bounce back to being a 3 WAR player. If its the latter, then he's going to end up being a utility player once the Angels have someone better to replace him with.

He has value as a utility player, even on his current contract, because of his versatility and elite defense.

What I am concerned with, though, is that Joe Maddon may still see him as a starter despite his horrible offense. So while the backup plan should be for him to be a utility player, I don't know if that will actually be the case.