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Marsh and Adell dilemma in 2022


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3 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm just relieved that they both survived the hardship trauma of being minor leaguers to make it to the major leagues.  It truly is inspirational.

If fletch interviews Marsh, he should pretend to pick Taco Bell out of his beard.  

too soon?  

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On 8/28/2021 at 10:00 PM, angelsnationtalk said:

It's a small sample size, a very very small sample size, but seeing how Marsh has adjusted at the plate already and seeing how Adell has handled the outfield as well as cutting down on chasing wild pitches has me at a crossroad. 

The outfield for 2022 is up in the air. I say this given the recent swarm of injuries Mike Trout has had and Justin Upton being practically non-existent. 

Over the last year and a half (and mostly since the trade deadline), I've loved the idea of trading one of Marsh or Adell to the Marlins for a front of the rotation piece. 

Now..... I'm not so sure I want to do that. I know the trade lines up well with the Marlins, but I think we are at a loss if one of those guys go and we have to deal with Upton on the decline and Trout with his history of injuries. 

Thoughts? Anyone else feeling like this?

The epitome of an arm chair GM. "When our players are duds I'd like to trade them for other teams best players. Now that they are good I would prefer to hang onto them." I get that you want to trade bad players for good players, but that isn't how trades generally work. Trades usually involve trading old players for young players to better fit a window, cheap players for expensive ones to reduce payroll, low ceiling high floor players for high ceiling low floor players to increase certainty, one surplus position for another in need, etc. 

What has changed over the last year (other than the performance of Marsh and Adell) that has changed your reasons for not making the trade? Did the Angels pitching get better so they have less of a need for pitching? Have Mike Trout and Justin Upton's injuries made you more worried about the need for 4 good outfielders for the Angels? If the answer is that it's really just performance, then the trade probably wasn't reasonable in the first place or that's it's probably still worth doing. MLB GMs aren't going off a player struggling for a month and a half or getting hot for a month and a half, either.

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10 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm just relieved that they both survived the hardship trauma of being minor leaguers to make it to the major leagues.  It truly is inspirational.

Obviously they knew where the grocery store was located. 

Edited by Slegnaac
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eaterfan said:

The epitome of an arm chair GM. "When our players are duds I'd like to trade them for other teams best players. Now that they are good I would prefer to hang onto them." I get that you want to trade bad players for good players, but that isn't how trades generally work. Trades usually involve trading old players for young players to better fit a window, cheap players for expensive ones to reduce payroll, low ceiling high floor players for high ceiling low floor players to increase certainty, one surplus position for another in need, etc. 

What has changed over the last year (other than the performance of Marsh and Adell) that has changed your reasons for not making the trade? Did the Angels pitching get better so they have less of a need for pitching? Have Mike Trout and Justin Upton's injuries made you more worried about the need for 4 good outfielders for the Angels? If the answer is that it's really just performance, then the trade probably wasn't reasonable in the first place or that's it's probably still worth doing. MLB GMs aren't going off a player struggling for a month and a half or getting hot for a month and a half, either.

This is the main reason. 

Outfielders are much easier to replace every season. Take Fowler, Lagares and Eaton for example. 

The boys are playing very well. It's the health of Trout and the liability in Upton that has me getting a bit worried with dealing Adell or Marsh. 

That's my reason which I think is fair. 

Had Trout been able to play around 130-140 games and Upton hit at least in the .260s then I would have worried at all about trading one of them.

Edited by angelsnationtalk
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There is no dilemma. As I've said several times before, there's some basic math to consider:

162 games X 3 outfield positions = 486 outfield starts

486 OF starts / 4 outfielders = 121.5 games started, on average

When you consider that Trout and Upton are injury prone, and Upton is an average player at best, there's no reason to be concerned about all four outfielders getting plenty of playing time next year. I highly doubt Upton starts 120 games next year. If Trout does, we'll be lucky. 

 

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If Upton stays in 2022, then they would have to choose between Lagares and Gosselin for a roster spot.

Lagares supplies good defense, but they already have that starting the game with Trout/Marsh/Adell.

Walsh’s splits are .967/.549 OPS vs RHP/LHP.   Definitely need someone to start in place of Walsh against LHP.  Gosselin has a .740 OPS vs LHP.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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17 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

If Upton stays in 2022, then they would have to choose between Lagares and Gosselin for a roster spot.

Lagares supplies good defense, but they already have that starting the game with Trout/Marsh/Adell.

Walsh’s splits are .967/.549 OPS vs RHP/LHP.   Definitely need someone to start in place of Walsh against LHP.  Gosselin has a .740 OPS vs LHP.

If it was between the two, I'd keep Gosselin, but not sure that they'd have to cut both. 

Starters: Stassi, Walsh, Fletcher, SS, Rendon, Adell, Trout, Marsh
Bench: Back-up C, Upton, Mayfield/UT IF, Gosselin, Lagares

That still leaves 13 roster spots for pitchers (Ohtani included)...it's a little heavy on the OF side and thin on infielders, but if the back-up C was someone like Thaiss or Ward, it becomes more workable.

Edited by totdprods
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14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I noticed that Thaiss’ OPS fell off drastically in August (.674).   Was he catching the whole time?

11 at catcher, five at 1B, four DH. 

In June and July, he played 1B only four times, and caught 21 times, and DH 20 times.

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15 minutes ago, totdprods said:

11 at catcher, five at 1B, four DH. 

In June and July, he played 1B only four times, and caught 21 times, and DH 20 times.

Just one of those slump months then?

Any updates on how he’s doing behind the plate?

Edited by Angel Oracle
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4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Just one of those slump months then?

Any updates on how he’s doing behind the plate?

Yeah, BAbip is a little low (.250), and he's still walking - 11 BB to 17 K. 

Haven't seen enough of him lately behind the plate to gauge on my own how he's doing. I'm not terribly optimistic...

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1 hour ago, totdprods said:

If it was between the two, I'd keep Gosselin, but not sure that they'd have to cut both. 

Starters: Stassi, Walsh, Fletcher, SS, Rendon, Adell, Trout, Marsh
Bench: Back-up C, Upton, Mayfield/UT IF, Gosselin, Lagares

That still leaves 13 roster spots for pitchers (Ohtani included)...it's a little heavy on the OF side and thin on infielders, but if the back-up C was someone like Thaiss or Ward, it becomes more workable.

If you have both Mayfield and Gooselin on the roster, I think you're fine with back up INF'ers....

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6 minutes ago, DMVol said:

If you have both Mayfield and Gooselin on the roster, I think you're fine with back up INF'ers....

I suppose I meant more on the traditional 1B/3B power-first type bench bat teams carry, but yes, that's still sufficient coverage. 

Ward or Thaiss actually make a lot of sense in that configuration. That's actually a really, really deep and versatile bench the more I think of it...

Edited by totdprods
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30 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I suppose I meant more on the traditional 1B/3B power-first type bench bat teams carry, but yes, that's still sufficient coverage. 

Ward or Thaiss actually make a lot of sense in that configuration. That's actually a really, really deep and versatile bench the more I think of it...

Depending on young guys that will need to be added to the 40 man roster, I'm not sure both Ward and Thaiss can be kept on the 40 man this winter...If you keep Lageras, Gooselin and Mayfield, it limits the spots for other bench guys....

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6 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Depending on young guys that will need to be added to the 40 man roster, I'm not sure both Ward and Thaiss can be kept on the 40 man this winter...If you keep Lageras, Gooselin and Mayfield, it limits the spots for other bench guys....

I'm expecting one of them to go in a trade, tbh. They both have an option remaining next year, but still think it might be time to try and cash one of them in, maybe with one of our numerous young R5 eligible/just added RP arms, for a MLB RP.

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