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7 Starting pitcher, Bullpen and 40 Mil


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Lets play a game, we have 7 starters looking to fill a six men rotation for next year.

The list of seven starters;

1. Othani

2. Sandoval 

3. Barria

4. Suarez

5. Canning

6. Detmers

7.Rodriguez

Numerous Bullpen arms in play as well;

1. warren

2. marte

3. Oretga

4. Criswell

5. Tyler

Lastly, we have 40 Mil.

 

How would you structure your Rotation, Bullpen and any free agents for next season? 

 

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Here's my plan

1. Othani

2. Scherzar (90 mil over 3yrs) first year 20 Mil

3. Cobbs (6 mil over 2 years) (8 mil first year)

4. Sandoval

5. Rodriguez

6. Barria

Detmers and Canning start the season in AAA for me. Detmers still needs to improve his command/control, similar to Canning.

Bullpen;

Cl: Iglesias (42 Mil over 3 years) ( 12 Mil the first year)

SU: Suarez; His stuff plays out better from in the Bp

Su2: Warren

Extra arms: Marte (healthy), Meyers, Shitshek (I know. I Know, But not a bad cheap option)

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10 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Scherzer

Ohtani

Gausman

Sandoval

Detmers

Canning


Yeah, it will be expensive to add two really good starters.  I plead guilty.  I want to actually win, not fantasize about winning and pat ourselves on the back for staying under budget.

What about the Bullpen Mate? The Bullpen!

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35 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Lets play a game, we have 7 starters looking to fill a six men rotation for next year.

The list of seven starters;

1. Othani

2. Sandoval 

3. Barria

4. Suarez

5. Canning

6. Detmers

7.Rodriguez

Numerous Bullpen arms in play as well;

1. warren

2. marte

3. Oretga

4. Criswell

5. Tyler

Lastly, we have 40 Mil.

 

How would you structure your Rotation, Bullpen and any free agents for next season? 

 

First, I would scrap the six man rotation. No team has won using the six man option. To that endI would like to see Ohtani, FA with TOR stuff, Sandoval, Rodriguez and Suarez or Detmers. That means that Barria goes to the pen with Warren, Marte, Criswell, Iglesias and FAs for the other spots. I would try to extend Iglesias for two years as closer. Sign a solid pitcher for the eighth inning. The Angels don’t have to spend all the money in the offseason. They are going to need a huge amount for Ohtani. 

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28 minutes ago, mmc said:

Why would we target Verlander over Stroman?

1. Stroman pitches in the NL east, one of the worst offensive league in the game. 

2. His stuff his power stuff any more, he's has morphed into more of a control/finase pitcher this year.

3. He's a 30 year old Undersize pitcher, who's advanced number suggest that he should regress. 

Think of it as this, Cobb has a 2.3 War in 77 innings, and pitching in the Al. Stroman has a 2.8 War whiile pitching 100 innings and playing in the Nl East.  

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2 hours ago, TroutCron said:

First, I would scrap the six man rotation. No team has won using the six man option. To that endI would like to see Ohtani, FA with TOR stuff, Sandoval, Rodriguez and Suarez or Detmers. That means that Barria goes to the pen with Warren, Marte, Criswell, Iglesias and FAs for the other spots. I would try to extend Iglesias for two years as closer. Sign a solid pitcher for the eighth inning. The Angels don’t have to spend all the money in the offseason. They are going to need a huge amount for Ohtani. 

Problem is, the young guys in the rotation don’t have enough innings built up to make 32 starts and pitch 180-190 innings in a 5 man rotation.

Barria hasn’t been very good out of the pen.

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19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Rotation: Ohtani, Sandoval, DeSclafani, Cobb, Detmers, and Barria

Pen: Iglesias, FA setup man, Warren, CRod, Suarez, Wantz, Marte, and Tyler

Remaining money for backup catcher and trade for Miguel Rojas

This seem realistic, I like it. 

CRod seems to me like he belongs in the pen (I wonder if he can stay healthy but isn't that the case with this whole team). 

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Here's how I'd go into the offseason...

My main rotation:

  1. Ohtani
  2. Trade/FA (go for impact here)
  3. Sandoval
  4. Trade/FA (go for value here)
  5. Detmers (let him work through growing pains)
  6. Barria (out of options)
     
  7. AAA/minors: Naughton, Criswell, Tyler, one of Rodriguez/Bachman (the other, at least initially, in multi-inning bullpen rotation)

**You might notice Canning isn't listed...I try to use him in a trade, or feel he's going to be IL-bound, if neither, he's in AAA as the first guy up.

My bullpen 'plan', though it's hard to structure because I feel the pen and it's roles/usage should be relatively flexible throughout the year:

  1. Closer: Iglesias (a must to re-sign)
  2. Set-up man: Trade/FA (I really want Will Smith, not sure it's doable)
  3. Set-up man #2: Mayers
  4. Mulit-inning mid-relief: Suarez
  5. Traditional mid-reliever: Trade/FA (I'd prefer a trade, feel it's safer than free agency. Nab someone with some control who is steady, but signing another Watson/Cishek-type is okay too)
  6. One or two rotating spots based on need, between lefty or multi-inning capability: Warren, Wantz, Marte, Selman, the other of Bachman/Rodriguez, Tyler, Higgins, Ortega, etc.
  7. Long-relief: Trade/FA (look at guys like Velasquez, Norris, Perez, Wacha, Lorenzon, Sanchez, Chatwood, again, look for value and a bounce-back deal here on someone comfortable working in the pen)
     
  8. AAA/minors: Pina, Ortega, Yan, Higgins, Tyler, Warren, Wantz

A couple notes:

  • Yes, Austin Warren absolutely deserves a bullpen role. No, I'm not handing over the 2nd or 3rd most important role to him yet. Lots of young relievers struggle after league adjusts. He'll see plenty of time in the pen and in high-lev, but he's still one of many optionable young arms at this time. 
  • Jose Suarez will be a starter. He has the makeup and the arsenal to succeed in that role. But the bullpen needs help and he's done very well pitching in relief, and has shown he can convert back to starting midseason without issue. We need someone like him in the bullpen initially.
  • Regarding Rodriguez and Bachman...I want to see both starting, but the need in the pen remains too great. Following what the Brewers have done with Burnes and the Dodgers with Urias, I keep my options open in '22 to use either in the MLB pen at least to open the season. As things progress and other roles settle they can return to the minors - or majors - in starting roles, but the urgency to win now keeps them in play for my bullpen.


We might have a bit of a 40-man roster crunch this winter, and it might make some prospects more available in trade.

Barria and Suarez are out of options (Slegers, Pena and Quijada too, but less impact there)
R5 eligible bats: Stefanic, MacKinnon, Knowles, Deveaux, Orlando Martinez, lesser extent Lund, Maitan, Soto, Aviles, Izzy Wilson, Brendon Davis (some of these may be minor league FA eligible too)
R5 eligible arms: Criswell, Tyler, Ortega, Pina, Hernandez, Junk, Peguero, Salvador, Swanda, Denny Brady, Jhonathan Diaz, Higgins, Cristopher Molinachanged 

Being R5 eligible doesn't necessarily make someone more likely to be traded or more valuable, but guys like Knowles, Deveaux, MacKinnon, Martinez, or maybe 2-3 arms combined (like the Bundy deal) could all be discussed since they might not have a clear path with the Angels.

Edited by totdprods
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Add a starter definitely.  Shoot the works for Max if we must.  Canning and Rodriguez go to the pen.  I really want to see Canning go all out for 1 inning as a closer than have him stick around as a mediocre starter.  

Kick the tires on Verlander to see if he would like to pitch here.  Sign a SS.  I like Seager, but I would sign Correa, because it makes us better, and the Astros worse. 

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Wonder if Detroit goes after Verlander. They've said they intend to spend and he'd mentor a great young staff, and could finish his career there. I think given the Bauer situation there is no way the Dodgers let Scherzer walk. They'll pay him like their Bauer replacement. 

Greinke is probably the likeliest old dude former #1 vet SP the Angels could sign.

@AngelStew43, I don't think Canning would work well in the pen...he doesn't have the velocity and I think even if you cut him down to 1-2 innings, he'd still have a hard time topping mid 90's. He's sort of a max effort guy just to get where he is now and I don't think it'd pan out.

Edited by totdprods
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Only Ohtani and Sandoval are locks for the opening day rotation. After that, you've got Suarez, Detmers, Rodriguez, Canning, and Barria.

Of the group, I think we need to see how things unfold over the last month. I think Detmers will figure out and be pencilled in, but maybe he needs a bit more work in AAA. But he's close, and you want him in the rotation next year for 20+ starts. I think Canning needs to start the year in AAA, re-find himself. I tend to agree that Suarez is probably more useful to the team in the bullpen, at least next year, even though I want to see him be a starter. Rodriguez just can't stay healthy, so is a bit of a wildcard. Barria has three quality starts and has been bombed in his last two; it is hard not to think that there's a valid reason the Angels haven't started him, but I think he has some value in the bullpen as a long reliever and emergency starter.

So of the five, I see Detmers and one of Saurez or Rodriguez in the Opening Day rotation, with the other--plus Barria and Canning--being in the bullpen or AAA to start when needed.

I think Cobb can be re-signed for relatively cheap, considering his injury this year. After that, I'd like to see them go after one of Gausman, Scherzer, Ray, Stroman, deScaflani, etc.

As for the bullpen, who knows. I'd try to re-sign Iglesias, pencil in Warren and Mayers, then add Barria and one of Suarez/Rodriguez. Then you have a group of Criswell, Tyler, Ortega, Marte, Wantz, and Quijada. I wouldn't want more than one or two of these guys starting the year, so that means 2-3 new relievers.

So, in summary:

Opening Day Rotation:

Ohtani, Free Agent, Sandoval, Cobb, Detmers, Suarez/Rodriguez

Opening Day Bullpen:

R. Iglesias, Warren, Mayers, Barria, Suarez/Rodriguez, one or two of Criswell/Tyler/Ortega/Mayer/Wantz/Quijada, three Free Agents/Trades

AAA Rotation: Canning, Tyler/Criswell, Daniel, Diaz, Naughton

AAA Bullpen: Ortega, Quijada/Wantz/Marte/Ortega, Higgins, maybe Hernandez, etc

 

Edited by Angelsjunky
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Barria could also be the kind of guy that you trade to say, Pittsburgh for Chad Kuhl or Minnesota for John Gant or Cleveland for Nick Wittgren, and take a pitcher with one-year left of control and maybe some some more potential, leveraging Barria's high floor, cheap salary, and cost control to a team that really needs it. 

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Barria could also be the kind of guy that you trade to say, Pittsburgh for Chad Kuhl or Minnesota for John Gant or Cleveland for Nick Wittgren, and take a pitcher with one-year left of control and maybe some some more potential, leveraging Barria's high floor, cheap salary, and cost control to a team that really needs it. 

Yes, good point. He's pretty much the odd man out and, unlike the other young guys, has neither a high upside or the stuff to be a stand-out reliever. He's most useful as rotation depth, and the Angels have more of those guys now than they did a year ago. There may not be any difference between Barria and any of Criswell, Tyler or Diaz, and Daniel has a higher upside.

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18 hours ago, mmc said:

Scherzer ain't leaving the Dodgers for the Angels, let's be real here.  They are 100% giving him whatever his asking price is to stay there short term.

You think they re-sign him and Kershaw? That's an expensive older 1-2. Also who knows what happens with Bauer. 

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3 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

You think they re-sign him and Kershaw? That's an expensive older 1-2. Also who knows what happens with Bauer. 

I think they definitely do. If they win another WS maybe they let Scherzer walk. They'll write off that Bauer money, even if just unofficially. 

Seager at $14m, Jansen at $20m, Taylor at $8m, Knebel at $5m...they have quite a bit coming off the books too. Kershaw's at $31m this year and he might not be quite as high on a re-signing either.

I could see them taking offers at Price ($16m) and Pollock ($13m in '22, $5m buyout or $10m option in '23) to clear some space too. It's ugly but they can make it work, they do so every year it seems.

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1. Othani

2. Scherzer / looooooong shot Kershaw or trade for Gallen 

3. Sandoval 

4. Stroman / Gausman / Greinke / Ray

5. Suarez

6. Detmers

7.Rodriguez / Canning 

 Bullpen 

Spend some money, so many options,  and keep Iglesias and keep of the kids

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