Pre-Hot Stove Discussion; or, how do you spend $45 million this offseason?

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

If they want to try and compete with the World Series contenders it’s going to have to be more than 45 million.  More like 65 million.  I like Correra because he’s a good player in his prime and it hurts the Astros.  He has fewer question marks than the other SS’s.  I’d love for them to get Stroman and I think that he realistically would be interested in coming here (purely wild speculation based on his comments about some of our players).  Which has been a problem in other pitcher pursuits.  Obviously they’ve gotta get some relievers.  I don’t want them to spend a lot on one reliever.  I want them to not suck shit at finding guys.  It would be nice if they could work something out with Iglesias but I’d rather they dump the money spent into a SS and a good starter.  Anyway.  One can dream. 

I really don't see the Angels bringing on another $25M+ AAV position player anytime soon, which is what Correa will be. They'll be paying Trout-Upton-Rendon $102M next year; adding Correa makes that $125-130M+ for four players. They'll want to transfer "Upton money" to Shohei.

 

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I really don't see the Angels bringing on another $25M+ AAV position player anytime soon, which is what Correa will be. They'll be paying Trout-Upton-Rendon $102M next year; adding Correa makes that $125-130M+ for four players. They'll want to transfer "Upton money" to Shohei.

 

Yep.  People always forget about the possibility of extending Ohtani when coming up with scenarios for next season.  If he is healthy and has a year that even comes remotely close to replicating this year, he'll pretty much get a blank check, since I can't imagine they'd want him to go into his last year before free agency on a 1-year deal.  

Unless Arte just opens up his checkbook and raises the budget in a big way, I don't see how the Angels can possibly sign one of the big free agent SS or other big-ticket players AND keep Ohtani long-term. 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yep.  People always forget about the possibility of extending Ohtani when coming up with scenarios for next season.  If he is healthy and has a year that even comes remotely close to replicating this year, he'll pretty much get a blank check, since I can't imagine they'd want him to go into his last year before free agency on a 1-year deal.  

Unless Arte just opens up his checkbook and raises the budget in a big way, I don't see how the Angels can possibly sign one of the big free agent SS or other big-ticket players AND keep Ohtani long-term. 

Listen fucking here 

[stormngt]

14 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Hey.  it’s a problem, no doubt.  Still the answer isn’t allocating a lot of money there.  It doesn’t work for anyone. 

Then spend the money in scouting instead if another big splash FA.

Get a damn bullpen!  Spend if necessary but get a bullpen. Lockdown bullpen this year and we have would be in a dog fight for the WC.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by stormngt

[Angelsfan1984]

25 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Then spend the money in scouting instead if another big splash FA.

Get a damn bullpen!  Spend if necessary but get a bullpen. Lockdown bullpen this year and we have would be in a dig fight for the WC.

 

 

I agree and that’s without trout and rendon. If those 2 flowers could get back onto the field this team would be so much better off. 

[Tank]

as much as i'd like to have Story or Seager, I'd be fine with keeping Iglesias at SS if it means that money was spent on a good starting pitcher. I don't want to see Fletcher at SS, or Barreto or Rengifo.

they clearly need to bolster the bullpen. if they're signing the usual suspect kind of guys, then it really won't matter what they do anywhere else if they can't hold a lead.

I'm fine with R. Iglesias as the closer and would look to extend him. Same with Cobb.

 

[Erstad Grit]

Trade Adell for Gallen  

Re-sign Iglesias SS for 1/10. If that's not doable look at Simmons, no big names 

Sign one of Robbie Ray/John Gray/ Stroman  2/35

Assemble a pen including extending Iglesias 3/36 for Iglesias and 2 RP for 1/8

Total about 55

Depending on market possibly take a risk on Greinke, Scherzer, or Verlander for short years and high dollars. Hell even Bauer if he's acquitted. Possibly something like 2/60. In this scenario I'd be willing to go cheaper on SS/2B with someone like C Hernandez and use Fletcher at SS. 

 

 

[beatlesrule]

3 hours ago, Justin said:

Also, two ladies were having the single greatest catfight I will ever witness. 

[BTH]

MOVES-

Claim OF Mike Tauchman off waivers.

Extend Raisel Iglesias: $2/$28M

Acquire RHP Jorge López (~$1M in arb) for RHP Sadrac Franco.

Acquire INF Joey Wendle (~$4.5M in arb) for RHP/DH William Holmes and RHP Luke Murphy.

Acquire RHP Joe Ross (~5M in arb) and RHP Kyle Finnegan (pre-arb) for INF RHP Jack Kochanowicz, OF Orlando Martinez, and LHP Hector Yan.

Acquire RHP Scott Barlow (~$2.5M in arb) and RHP Brad Keller (~$5M in arb) for OF Jordyn Adams, INF Jeremiah Jackson, INF Luis Rengifo, RHP Aaron Hernandez

Sign Jonathan Schoop: 2/$9M.

Sign Andrew Chafin: 2/$16M

 

ROSTER-

Lineup vs. RHP: Upton (LF), Ohtani (DH), Trout (RF), Walsh (1B), Rendon (3B), Wendle (2B), Stassi (C), Marsh (CF), Fletcher (SS).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Schoop (1B/2B), Tauchman (OF), Ward (1B/OF)

Lineup vs. LHP: Upton (LF), Trout (RF), Ohtani (DH), Rendon (3B), Schoop (2B), Stassi (C), Ward (1B), Fletcher (SS), Marsh (CF).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Wendle (2B/3B/SS), Tauchman (OF), Walsh (1B)

Rotation: Ohtani, Sandoval, Keller, Ross, Detmers, Barria.

Bullpen: Iglesias, Barlow, Chafin, Rodriguez, Mayers, Selman, Suarez, López.

[failos]

Trevor story 

[T.G.]

$45 million for Pujols and give him the farewell tour he deserves.

[tchula]

13 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Let's avoid the "a small island with supermodels" comments. OK, go ahead if you must--and I probably just opened the flood-gates--but I just wanted to pre-empt the smartassery. Onto the topic at hand....

Consider this a pre-Hot Stove discussion. There have been comments scattered throughout the forum, but let's consolidate it. From what I can tell, the Angels have $40-50M to spend this offseason. Let's say $45M...how do you spend it?

Considering all expiring contracts, I think the priorities are, in order:

1. A bullpen (3+ relievers). This is obviously the biggest concern, with only Mayers under club control for 2022, other than guys who have spent most of the year in the minors like Pena, Wantz, Warren, and Quijada. They've also not newcomer Selman, but he seems mediocre at best, and a bunch of minor leaguers to consider, including newcomers Elvis Peguero and Jose Marte. But the cupboard is pretty barren, as far as proven, quality relievers. So while they can fill several slots from within, I figure they'll want to sign at least three quality relievers, include a closer (e.g. Raisel Iglesias).

2. A starter. While the Angels are all of a sudden relatively flush in solid young starters--with breakthrough performances from Ohtani and Sandoval, "quasi-breakthroughs" from Suarez and Barria, two top prospects in Detmers and C Rod on the cusp, and, of course, presumably Canning will be back--it seems unlikely they won't go after at least one quality starter. They've also got several minor leaguers who could conceivably start major league games next year, like Davis Daniel, Jhonathan Diaz, and Janson Junk, not to mention top pick Sam Bachman possibly later in the year. So while a starter isn't absolutely necessary, it is probably a good idea to sign at least one guy, either Alex Cobb or someone like Marcus Stroman. The big fish will be Kevin Gausman, but he'll almost certainly be garnering the type of mega-contract that will be prohibitive to the Angels.

3. A shortstop. While there is a big crop of good shortstops available, this will likely be a budget signing--whether bringing Jose Iglesias back or rolling the dice on Luis Rengifo, or possibly moving Fletcher back to SS and going with an extended try-out at 2B/utility with Rengifo, Franklin Barreto, Michael Stefanic, or even fringe prospects Brendon Davis and Luis Aviles.

4. A back-up catcher. Max Stassi has emerged as a legit major league starting catcher. Consider that his 2.4 fWAR this year is 7th among all catchers, and he's done it in only 170 PA. The Angels might want to give Matt Thaiss a chance, with someone like Bemboom in AAA as insurance, or they might want to sign a cheap defense-first backup. Regardless, Suzuki is gone and we can only hope that it is lesson-learned, as far as a poor defensive catcher is concerned.

One Possible/Likely Scenario: "2021, Take Two"

The Angels re-sign Cobb for $9-10M AAV, Raisel for $14-15M AAV, and Jose Iglesias for $5-7M AAV. That's $28-33M just for those three players, leaving about $15M for two or (preferably three) more relievers and possibly a back-up catcher. A quality veteran reliever usually costs around $5-6M per year, so that should work out.

Meaning, they bring back those three players and spend the rest on re-vamping the bullpen. So basically you have the same 2022 team, but hope for better health from the lineup, continued improvement from the young starters, and you add a better cast around Raisel in the bullpen. Thus, "2021, Take Two."

Other Possibilities

Alternately, they can go the budget route at SS and either go after Stroman instead of Cobb or spend a bit more on relief.

I don't see them putting the required money into an elite starter, whether it is a huge 6+ year, $200M deal for Gausman or an expensive shorter deal for Scherzer (assuming he goes to free agency, which is probably unlikely). I also don't see them going after a more expensive shortstop than Iglesias. On the other hand, if they are willing to trade prospects to build up the bullpen, they might consider signing one of the better starters rather than (or in addition to) Cobb.

But without trades, I see them spending about two-thirds of their cash (~$30M) on the bullpen, about half of which will go to Raisel Iglesias and the other half to two or three veterans. The other one-third goes to a starter and a shortstop. The money ($45M) doesn't quite work, but they can budget-shop for that fourth reliever.

Don't Forget About Trades!

Trades are also possible. The Angels don't absolutely need both Brandon Marsh and Jo Adell, and as much as I'd like to see that Trout-Marsh-Adell outfield, these guys have significant trade value. I could also see them creating a package of one of their young starters (maybe Canning or Barria), a middle infield prospect (Jeremiah Jackson), and someone like Ward or Thaiss for a higher end pitching prospect. Or possibly several trades of prospects for quality relievers.

Regardless, the Angels go into the offseason in a better position than they have in years. For one, the core is much better--the lineup is very good and potentially great, and they have a bunch of quality (and cheap) young starters. Furthermore, they have both more money to spend and more (somewhat) expendable prospects to trade from.

Meaning, it wouldn't be terribly difficult for Minasian to greatly bolster the team so that they go into 2022 as a legit contender, and possibly without trading away any of their better prospects.

 

Very well done, although I do believe we will have a bit more to work with than 45-50 million.  I do not see any major arbitration hit with what we currently have on the roster aside from Stassi (that will not be the case, however, in 2023).  I think we'll have 55-60 million to spend if we want to stay in the 180-190 million payroll range.   

 

[wopphil]

8 hours ago, Trendon said:

MOVES-

Claim OF Mike Tauchman off waivers.

Extend Raisel Iglesias: $2/$28M

Acquire RHP Jorge López (~$1M in arb) for RHP Sadrac Franco.

Acquire INF Joey Wendle (~$4.5M in arb) for RHP/DH William Holmes and RHP Luke Murphy.

Acquire RHP Joe Ross (~5M in arb) and RHP Kyle Finnegan (pre-arb) for INF RHP Jack Kochanowicz, OF Orlando Martinez, and LHP Hector Yan.

Acquire RHP Scott Barlow (~$2.5M in arb) and RHP Brad Keller (~$5M in arb) for OF Jordyn Adams, INF Jeremiah Jackson, INF Luis Rengifo, RHP Aaron Hernandez

Sign Jonathan Schoop: 2/$9M.

Sign Andrew Chafin: 2/$16M

 

ROSTER-

Lineup vs. RHP: Upton (LF), Ohtani (DH), Trout (RF), Walsh (1B), Rendon (3B), Wendle (2B), Stassi (C), Marsh (CF), Fletcher (SS).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Schoop (1B/2B), Tauchman (OF), Ward (1B/OF)

Lineup vs. LHP: Upton (LF), Trout (RF), Ohtani (DH), Rendon (3B), Schoop (2B), Stassi (C), Ward (1B), Fletcher (SS), Marsh (CF).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Wendle (2B/3B/SS), Tauchman (OF), Walsh (1B)

Rotation: Ohtani, Sandoval, Keller, Ross, Detmers, Barria.

Bullpen: Iglesias, Barlow, Chafin, Rodriguez, Mayers, Selman, Suarez, López.

I looked a bunch of these guys up (because I didn’t know much about them). Ross and Keller seem unimpressive. What do you like about these two? What do you like about Finnegan? Why expend prospect capital when you could seemingly get better production, without the prospect cost, from a guy like Cobb? 

[jsnpritchett]

5 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I looked a bunch of these guys up (because I didn’t know much about them). Ross and Keller seem unimpressive. What do you like about these two? What do you like about Finnegan? Why expend prospect capital when you could seemingly get better production, without the prospect cost, from a guy like Cobb? 

I was wondering the same thing.  There's such a degree of specifity to the list, yet at the same time it seems like a random assortment of names. 

[HaloSpurs]

Apols if touched upon already - when do we need to try and lock up Ohtani long term. Surely that’s this winter? 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, HaloSpurs said:

Apols if touched upon already - when do we need to try and lock up Ohtani long term. Surely that’s this winter? 

They have him under contract for next year and he has one arb year after that. 

[Angels Fan Forever]

13 hours ago, stormngt said:

Get a damn bullpen!  Spend if necessary but get a bullpen. Lockdown bullpen this year and we have would be in a dig fight for the WC.

 

I think we can have a very good bull pen without the $14-$15 M it would take to re-sign Iglesias. We have a ton of talent in the system now and could also add some arms using the money we are not giving to Iglesias.

If Minasian is smart, and I think he is, he will not re-sign Iglesias.

[Docwaukee]

10 hours ago, Trendon said:

MOVES-

Claim OF Mike Tauchman off waivers.

Extend Raisel Iglesias: $2/$28M

Acquire RHP Jorge López (~$1M in arb) for RHP Sadrac Franco.

Acquire INF Joey Wendle (~$4.5M in arb) for RHP/DH William Holmes and RHP Luke Murphy.

Acquire RHP Joe Ross (~5M in arb) and RHP Kyle Finnegan (pre-arb) for INF RHP Jack Kochanowicz, OF Orlando Martinez, and LHP Hector Yan.

Acquire RHP Scott Barlow (~$2.5M in arb) and RHP Brad Keller (~$5M in arb) for OF Jordyn Adams, INF Jeremiah Jackson, INF Luis Rengifo, RHP Aaron Hernandez

Sign Jonathan Schoop: 2/$9M.

Sign Andrew Chafin: 2/$16M

 

ROSTER-

Lineup vs. RHP: Upton (LF), Ohtani (DH), Trout (RF), Walsh (1B), Rendon (3B), Wendle (2B), Stassi (C), Marsh (CF), Fletcher (SS).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Schoop (1B/2B), Tauchman (OF), Ward (1B/OF)

Lineup vs. LHP: Upton (LF), Trout (RF), Ohtani (DH), Rendon (3B), Schoop (2B), Stassi (C), Ward (1B), Fletcher (SS), Marsh (CF).

Bench: Bemboom (C), Wendle (2B/3B/SS), Tauchman (OF), Walsh (1B)

Rotation: Ohtani, Sandoval, Keller, Ross, Detmers, Barria.

Bullpen: Iglesias, Barlow, Chafin, Rodriguez, Mayers, Selman, Suarez, López.

I appreciate the effort but in my opinion, you just put a pretty decent hurt on the farm system for a bunch of mediocre.  

[stormngt]

8 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

I think we can have a very good bull pen without the $14-$15 M it would take to re-sign Iglesias. We have a ton of talent in the system now and could also add some arms using the money we are not giving to Iglesias.

I am good with that.  I just do not want any excuses about it.  I do not want to hear it's crapshoot.  

I do not want to spend 25+ on a player we do not need and not spend where we do need help.  

[Taylor]

8 hours ago, failos said:

Trevor story 

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

[Angels Fan Forever]

13 minutes ago, Taylor said:

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

The Trevor Project , no relationship to Trevor Story, looks like an amazing organization. My initial reaction was, Damn, I should be doing more.

Thanks Taylor.

[stormngt]

37 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They have him under contract for next year and he has one arb year after that. 

Use the money freed up by Upton to lock up Ohtani.

[Stradling]

Just now, stormngt said:

Use the money freed up by Upton to lock up Ohtani.

I am pretty sure that will be the plan.

[HaloSpurs]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They have him under contract for next year and he has one arb year after that. 

Okay great so not essential this winter although would be wise to start those negotiations 

[failos]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I was wondering the same thing.  There's such a degree of specifity to the list, yet at the same time it seems like a random assortment of names. 

I think he’s trolling