OK Perry, time to sell

[UndertheHalo]

55 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's going to be the same shit next year. Arte will put a cap on the payroll, Minasian will be forced to build a "winner" with about $30 million, we'll go in to 2022 with hope that everything can go our way, then AJ will make this thread again.

It's fucking groundhog day with this shit organization and I'm done with it.

Very sad. 

[CanadianHalo]

9 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's not Minasian. 

[Angels 1961]

You do not need money to have a winning team. Look at Tampa, bad contracts hinder your team. Throwing more money at it by halos will not help. Develop your own talent or trade for it. Sandoval, Fletcher, Walsh, Suarez, Marsh, Trout and Ohtani. Build your team this way. Adell, Detmers, Chris Rod and others on the way. No more long term deals as they are just hurting this team.

[Dtwncbad]

45 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yes.  He's basically saying he's not going to take a discount to do an extension now.  If he gets offered whatever he perceives market value to be, he'd at least consider an extension.

Maybe I am not picking with this comment but. . .

I don’t think teams really expect a player to take a “discount” in signing an extension.

The negotiation is correctly going to include some factor of the value of securing your money now versus risking injury between now and reaching free agency.

That, to me, is not a “discount.”  It is simply an element that is openly negotiated to hopefully reach the actual fair market for the player today versus waiting.

The idea is for the player to prefer to sign the extension than to wait for free agency.  

If they sign the extension (showing they prefer to sign the extension rather than wait for free agency), it is really hard for me to categorize the contract they sign as at a “discount” even if experts project that they may have been able to land more raw dollars in free agency.

I would love for the Angels to acquire Berrios and work out a “full value” extension to lock him up for more years, meaning they offer him a deal that he wants to sign now RATHER than waiting for free agency.

So my basic point is the word “discount” is a hypothetical and out-of-context distraction to this discussion.

[Angels 1961]

Minasian will not be selling until 29 or 30th of this month. A big trade is coming.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

Minasian will not be selling until 29 or 30th of this month. A big trade is coming.

I saw my face in my beer too.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I saw my face in my beer too.

I saw Santa Maria on my danish this morning.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

I saw Santa Maria on my danish this morning.

Exactly.  Thanks for getting my comment.

[Dtwncbad]

20 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

I am confused.  Which version of Eppler is this?

[Angels Fan Forever]

37 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's not Minasian. 

And it wasn't Eppler either.

[Mark PT]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I know he can't say it publicly, but let's take stock:

10 GB first. 6.5 GB the second wildcard, with five teams ahead of them. Add in an inability to hold their own against winning teams, and....time to sell.

I don't expect him to make any moves for another week or so, and perhaps not even until the deadline (10 days from now), but I certainly hope he's having talks and leaning towards selling.

Again, both Raisel and Cobb could net the Angels some good prospects, even 50-55 FV types (if he's savvy, he could possibly bring in a 60 FV type for Raisel; Marsh is a 60 FV type). 

There's a big drop-off in trade value after those two, but Heaney and Iglesias, Gosselin, Ward, and even Watson and Cishek, could all bring in something. Who knows, if Upton comes back strong, maybe Perry can pull off a last-minute trade to a team wanting a bat.

I don't see him getting anything of value for Bundy, Quintana, Suzuki, Eaton, Lagares, Slegers, etc. 

 

I guess the only obstacle to your assessment is what are the possibility of improving the staff next year (open question). If its a good prospect, then I'd keep Cobb and Sandoval. Anything beyond this is fair game (my opinion). If there is no hope to improve much next year, then sell.

[jsnpritchett]

16 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Maybe I am not picking with this comment but. . .

I don’t think teams really expect a player to take a “discount” in signing an extension.

The negotiation is correctly going to include some factor of the value of securing your money now versus risking injury between now and reaching free agency.

That, to me, is not a “discount.”  It is simply an element that is openly negotiated to hopefully reach the actual fair market for the player today versus waiting.

The idea is for the player to prefer to sign the extension than to wait for free agency.  

If they sign the extension (showing they prefer to sign the extension rather than wait for free agency), it is really hard for me to categorize the contract they sign as at a “discount” even if experts project that they may have been able to land more raw dollars in free agency.

I would love for the Angels to acquire Berrios and work out a “full value” extension to lock him up for more years, meaning they offer him a deal that he wants to sign now RATHER than waiting for free agency.

So my basic point is the word “discount” is a hypothetical and out-of-context distraction to this discussion.

Semantics. I get what you're saying, but based on his comments, it's pretty clear that he views any extension that doesn't pay him whatever he feels is his full market value isn't worth discussing.  That's why I used the term "discount." I don't feel it's a distraction. 

[Angels Fan Forever]

3 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Semantics. I get what you're saying, but based on his comments, it's pretty clear that he views any extension that doesn't pay him whatever he feels is his full market value isn't worth discussing.  That's why I used the term "discount." I don't feel it's a distraction. 

If that's the case then Berrios is hedging on staying healthy with similar success through next year. Probably a good choice - he's only 27, has been very durable and is still getting better.

Two other examples: First, Upton signing the extension after we acquired him in the trade. Turns out it was an amazing financial hedge for Upton. Secondly, Fletcher's new contract. I think Fletcher left some money on the table but maybe he was looking for the security now and knowing he'll only be 31 when the deal expires.

[Dtwncbad]

13 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Semantics. I get what you're saying, but based on his comments, it's pretty clear that he views any extension that doesn't pay him whatever he feels is his full market value isn't worth discussing.  That's why I used the term "discount." I don't feel it's a distraction. 

Wasn’t picking at you by the way.

Just reiterating that an extension deal pretty much always is, a “full value” contract. . . for an extension. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Wasn’t picking at you by the way.

Just reiterating that an extension deal pretty much always is, a “full value” contract. . . for an extension. 

Right-- and based on his comments, he's looking for a free agent-level contract offer in order to even consider signing anything before he's eligible for free agency.

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Right-- and based on his comments, he's looking for a free agent-level contract offer in order to even consider signing anything before he's eligible for free agency.

Ugh.  He will either sign an extension (if he thinks what is offered to him is his best move) or he will wait for free agency.

That is the situation.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

Offer Cobb an extension, if he turns it down trade him to TB or NY. Bring back Barria to take his spot and see if he’s a real option for next year. 
Trade both Iglesias but if you can’t find value with Raisel, you can always QO him. Toronto really needs another BP arm if they are serious about winning and they have some good C prospects. Trade Jose to the Mets or Cincinnati and bring up Stefanic until Arte signs one of the SS free agents in the off-season. 
Trade Heaney, Cishek, Watson, and the rest for whatever you can get. 
 

 

[AngelStew43]

Drafting 20 pitchers is rebuild mode

Drafting 19 college pitchers is push em through the system as quickly as possible, most are ready for high-A or AA.  

Get em to the show by 2023, while Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, and Walsh still have prime seasons left. 

[beatlesrule]

I was going to make a poll next week on if people here think we should be buyers or sellers. You jumped the gun.

[jsnpritchett]

23 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Ugh.  He will either sign an extension (if he thinks what is offered to him is his best move) or he will wait for free agency.

That is the situation.

Ok.  I give up.  I truly don't understand the point of continuing to argue semantics when it's crystal clear what he means.  We'll see how it all plays out.

[CanadianHalo]

12 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

Offer Cobb an extension, if he turns it down trade him to TB or NY. Bring back Barria to take his spot and see if he’s a real option for next year. 
Trade both Iglesias but if you can’t find value with Raisel, you can always QO him. Toronto really needs another BP arm if they are serious about winning and they have some good C prospects. Trade Jose to the Mets or Cincinnati and bring up Stefanic until Arte signs one of the SS free agents in the off-season. 
Trade Heaney, Cishek, Watson, and the rest for whatever you can get. 
 

 

[Lou]

13 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

but if you can’t find value with Raisel, you can always QO him

Absolutely not.

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

Offer Cobb an extension, if he turns it down trade him to TB or NY. Bring back Barria to take his spot and see if he’s a real option for next year. 
Trade both Iglesias but if you can’t find value with Raisel, you can always QO him. Toronto really needs another BP arm if they are serious about winning and they have some good C prospects. Trade Jose to the Mets or Cincinnati and bring up Stefanic until Arte signs one of the SS free agents in the off-season. 
Trade Heaney, Cishek, Watson, and the rest for whatever you can get. 
 

 

Am I crazy to think that R. Iglesias might actually take a qualifying offer if the Angels don't trade him before the end of the season and he's not happy with any potential extension offers? I'm curious to see how it'll be calculated, but I imagine it'll probably be in the $19M range.  If he bets on staying healthy, taking that deal, then signing a 2+ year deal after next year might give him some financial upside (albeit with some risk that he will make less if he gets hurt or doesn't have a good year).

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Am I crazy to think that R. Iglesias might actually take a qualifying offer if the Angels don't trade him before the end of the season and he's not happy with any potential extension offers? I'm curious to see how it'll be calculated, but I imagine it'll probably be in the $19M range.  If he bets on staying healthy, taking that deal, then signing a 2+ year deal after next year might give him some financial upside (albeit with some risk that he will make less if he gets hurt or doesn't have a good year).

I don’t think the angels situation next year makes $19 million for Iglesias or basically any reliever very realistic.   

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t think the angels situation next year makes $19 million for Iglesias or basically any reliever very realistic.   

I totally agree.  That's actually my point (and I see that @Lou agrees): they should be very careful about offering him a Q.O. if it comes to that point. Sure, it'd be great to get a compensation pick in the draft if he turned it down--but I wouldn't want to risk him saying, "yes, I will gladly accept $19M!"