The Tony Reagins scapegoat vindication thread

[Ohtaniland]

Storm, be honest, do you really think that Scioscia ever answered to Reagins. Under normal circumstances

that's protocol but Scioscia was the pseudo GM. There is no way that Reagins woke up and said we need to move Napoli for Vernon Wells. This was a bad organizational decision which Reagins took the fall for. If he single-handedly pulled off this trade on his own he wouldn't still have a job today.

[Angel Oracle]

Yes, but we would have sacrificed three seasons.  The purpose of the Haren trade was to make us competitive right away.  Haren did that, we just didn't win it!   (the division).  We would have been under 500 each of the last three years had it not been for the Haren trade.  In hindsight, it would have been best not to make the trade, but at the time, it was a good trade.  Haren pitched well for us for most of his tenure.  At the time most analyst felt the Angels ripped the Dbacks off.

In 2011 anyway, because Haren wasn't very good in 2012.    So essentially, they likely gained ONE more over .500 season thanks to Haren.   Still makes the trade a bad one ultimately.  

[Angel Oracle]

The point that should be made is that the org has guessed wrong on a lot of the acquisitions/non-acquisitions since 2010.

That has to change real soon.

[stormngt]

Storm, be honest, do you really think that Scioscia ever answered to Reagins. Under normal circumstances

that's protocol but Scioscia was the pseudo GM. There is no way that Reagins woke up and said we need to move Napoli for Vernon Wells. This was a bad organizational decision which Reagins took the fall for. If he single-handedly pulled off this trade on his own he wouldn't still have a job today.

In all honesty, I have no idea.  I can speculate and guess.  I do believe Sosh has a lot of influence in the franchise.  But even with that assumption, that does not provide anything to verify that Sosh forced Napoli out. 

 

I for one did not want Napoli to leave.  I would have preferred him platooned DH with Abreu  and back up 1b and Catcher.  I did not like the trade (although did not think it was going to end up being as much of a disaster as it was) but I do not like people saying it was "all Scioscia's call" and by saying so it must be fact.

 

There are several possibilities on who pushed for the trade:

1.  It could be the Sosh didn't like Napoli

2.  It could be that both Reagins and Sosh wanted the trade.

3. It could be that the franchise didn't want the pay increases of Napoli.

4.  It could be that Reagins was taking tequila shots with Alex Anthopolous before he decided to give him Napoli for Wells.

 

I really don't know.  But when I speculate, I speculate and I let people know it is just an opinion without substantiations.

[stormngt]

In 2011 anyway, because Haren wasn't very good in 2012.    So essentially, they likely gained ONE more over .500 season thanks to Haren.   Still makes the trade a bad one ultimately.  

Haren was good in 2010 after the trade, good in 2011, and good for half the season in 2012.  He still pitched better than the typical number 5 pitcher....aka Blanton.

 

The trade is only bad because we didn't make the playoffs during Haren's tenure.  Too bad we can't make decisions with hindsight.

[stormngt]

The point that should be made is that the org has guessed wrong on a lot of the acquisitions/non-acquisitions since 2010.

That has to change real soon.

Oracle, can you bump a thread where in 2010 you thought the Haren trade was bad?  I remember just about everyone suggesting that it was a steal for the Angels.

[Mudville]

The Angels could lose every game the rest of the year, and that would not make Reagins any less of an moran. There is only one person on the planet that would have willingly traded for Vernon Wells. And to make matters worse, he ate almost the whole contract AND gave up talent return. No amount of bad luck and bad play on Dipotos watch can change that  

 

The Wells trade was bad but let's put it in context of stupid moves.

 

Wells from 1999-2010 had a .280 Avg and .820 ops. His 2012 season .273 avg .847 ops and 31 home runs. Not exactly the worst player in MLB baseball to trade for even with the albatross contract. Not condoning the trade but the guy at least had a track record that said above replacement value player.

 

From 2011-2013 Wells hit .222 with a .667 ops. The worst player to trade for with that albatross contract.

 

And yet the Yankees took on $28 million in dead money with a luxury tax penalty, let go of two minor league players and has gotten almost exactly the guy we traded with a .241 avg and .694 ops.

 

Cashman has been around a hell of a lot longer than Reagins but is still just another moran with a checkbook.

[tdawg87]

I swear to god if the Angels even think about going after Cano this offseason I will kill myself.

[Ohtaniland]

In all honesty, I have no idea.  I can speculate and guess.  I do believe Sosh has a lot of influence in the franchise.  But even with that assumption, that does not provide anything to verify that Sosh forced Napoli out. 

 

I for one did not want Napoli to leave.  I would have preferred him platooned DH with Abreu  and back up 1b and Catcher.  I did not like the trade (although did not think it was going to end up being as much of a disaster as it was) but I do not like people saying it was "all Scioscia's call" and by saying so it must be fact.

 

There are several possibilities on who pushed for the trade:

1.  It could be the Sosh didn't like Napoli

2.  It could be that both Reagins and Sosh wanted the trade.

3. It could be that the franchise didn't want the pay increases of Napoli.

4.  It could be that Reagins was taking tequila shots with Alex Anthopolous before he decided to give him Napoli for Wells.

 

I really don't know.  But when I speculate, I speculate and I let people know it is just an opinion without substantiations.

 

I can respect that. In searching for more information I found this from the old board. Kinda funny. stormngt, at least you remained consistant on this issue. Hopefully Dipoto can right the ship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ohtaniland]

I swear to god if the Angels even think about going after Cano this offseason I will kill myself.

 

Warning.....Robinson Cano is really 38 years old and is now declining.

[AngelsLakersFan]

The Wells trade was bad but let's put it in context of stupid moves.

 

Wells from 1999-2010 had a .280 Avg and .820 ops. His 2012 season .273 avg .847 ops and 31 home runs. Not exactly the worst player in MLB baseball to trade for even with the albatross contract. Not condoning the trade but the guy at least had a track record that said above replacement value player.

 

From 2011-2013 Wells hit .222 with a .667 ops. The worst player to trade for with that albatross contract.

 

And yet the Yankees took on $28 million in dead money with a luxury tax penalty, let go of two minor league players and has gotten almost exactly the guy we traded with a .241 avg and .694 ops.

 

Cashman has been around a hell of a lot longer than Reagins but is still just another moran with a checkbook.

 

To be fair to Cashman, the Yankees were really up against the wall at the time the trade was made and they did get Wells for pennies on the dollar. The move also allows the Yankees to avoid the luxury tax over the remainder of Wells contract. A nice loophole that will save the Yankees a lot of money that they wouldn't have save without the trade.

[austin724]

A good chunk of the problem today lies with Tony Reagins. The guy should have never been given that opportunity to be a GM.

[Mudville]

To be fair to Cashman, the Yankees were really up against the wall at the time the trade was made and they did get Wells for pennies on the dollar. The move also allows the Yankees to avoid the luxury tax over the remainder of Wells contract. A nice loophole that will save the Yankees a lot of money that they wouldn't have save without the trade.

The Yankees could have picked up a newly retired outfielder and have gotten a better bench player out of them for a one year deal.

 

They could have taken a shot at Scott Posednik or Nyger Morgan just for bench giggles when Tony Plush plays for him. They didn't need to chase a white elephant.

[ItsGMan21]

Smh ..... some of you can't possibly know the business.  Tony was not the only person involved in making deals or decisions  .... I've seen Artie with my own eyes making deals!  How do you guys feel about how The Angels are doing now?  If Tony did what he did with NO MONEY, imagine what he could have done with a bank roll! P.S. Tony would never had LIED to Torii Hunter saying they didn't have any money!. Tony is a CLASS act and has been a CLASS act all of his life! I've know him personally for over 30 years! the proof is in the WINNING!  SMH! 

[HaloMagic]

LOL

[AngelsLakersFan]

DiPoto's flaw has been in his assumption that he'd actually cleaned up the entire mess Tony Reagins left for him...

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

Hi Mrs. Reagins.

[mulwin444]

Hi Mrs. Reagins.

Or Tony himself.  No, wait,that would actually mean he had the competence to turn on a computer, find this website, create an account...I know, outlandish

Edited April 17, 2014 by mulwin444

[jshep]

Smh ..... some of you can't possibly know the business.  Tony was not the only person involved in making deals or decisions  .... I've seen Artie with my own eyes making deals!  How do you guys feel about how The Angels are doing now?  If Tony did what he did with NO MONEY, imagine what he could have done with a bank roll! P.S. Tony would never had LIED to Torii Hunter saying they didn't have any money!. Tony is a CLASS act and has been a CLASS act all of his life! I've know him personally for over 30 years! the proof is in the WINNING!  SMH! 

 

holy shit, best post on this board since that dude who played Xbox with Kazmir

Edited April 17, 2014 by jshep

[tdawg87]

Tony is going to drop the hammer this year.

[Tyler]

[YouthofToday]

Of course Reagins was not the only one making decisions. That said, he was completely in over his head and evidently didn't have the gravitas or the guts to tell other influencers deals like the Wells concept were catastrophically bad.

Good riddance.

[bloodbrother]

Smh ..... some of you can't possibly know the business.  Tony was not the only person involved in making deals or decisions  .... I've seen Artie with my own eyes making deals!  How do you guys feel about how The Angels are doing now?  If Tony did what he did with NO MONEY, imagine what he could have done with a bank roll! P.S. Tony would never had LIED to Torii Hunter saying they didn't have any money!. Tony is a CLASS act and has been a CLASS act all of his life! I've know him personally for over 30 years! the proof is in the WINNING!  SMH! 

 

 

Tony's so good that no team has sniffed him ever since his spectacular tenure as GM of the Halos

[Inside Pitch]

. Tony would never had LIED to Torii Hunter saying they didn't have any money!. Tony is a CLASS act and has been a CLASS act all of his life! I've know him personally for over 30 years! 

 

He wined and dined him at Del Taco, he didn't need to lie...

Edited April 17, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Mark68]

But our Angels were 457-353 under Tony Reagins with 3 playoff appearances.

With a team constructed mainly by Stoneman.

 

Try again.