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Old School vs New School


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On 6/21/2021 at 10:25 AM, Stradling said:

Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 5.13.54 PM.png

I wanted to start this thread about our opinions of baseball today versus how maybe we viewed it 20-30 years ago.  

I started thinking about how pitchers are used today, where the manager for most pitchers ask the average pitcher to give the team about 5 innings.  Obviously there are stud pitchers out there that give their team close to 7 innings per outing, but that is the outlier and not the expectation.  So if you think back to 20 or 30 years ago pitchers were often getting into and out of trouble in their outings.  You would see a pitcher allow a couple of base runners in the 5th or 6th inning and then get out of the jam or even give up a run or two, get out of it and then come back out the next inning to pitch.  It certainly feels like that doesn't happen anymore.  Sure for a lot of teams you will see a pitcher in the first 3 or so innings give up a couple of runs and they get to continue to pitch.  But almost never does a pitcher give up a couple in the 5th and they are given the 6th to go get outs. 

Maybe some of you disagree with this but it is just how I see the game.  So my question is this, 20 or 30 years ago when a pitcher got into trouble in the 5th or 6th innings were you pissed off that the manager didn't have someone warming up and clamoring to have the pitcher pulled?  I don't remember feeling that way.  I remember expecting the starter to go 7 innings.  Watching a game today it feels like I am EXPECTING a pitching warming up the minute a starter gets into trouble from the 4th inning on. 

I am wondering if that has changed our perceptions of good outings or bad outings.  Has that changed our expectation as a fan of what we expect from managers or pitchers?  Does it make us blame the manager more than we once did?  Does it make us think a starting pitcher is worse than we once did?  I am not saying this just as Angel fans, but throughout baseball.  Curious what people think.  

I perceive this as well and think its F'n up the game.   It's ok to let the starter work out of trouble.   Heaven forbid the face the lineup a third or fourth time.  

The strategy may work when you have a lockdown bullpen but it's suck. 

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On 6/21/2021 at 12:27 PM, Mark PT said:

I think what you said is valid. Mauch did leave guys in too long. I think this is just manager skill, to know what your pitchers can do and what they cant. This is the problem or weakness that many managers have in today's game, they stick to a pattern and dont evaluate each situation and the personnel involved before making a decision. They stick to their matrix and forget about the human element.

"Stick to a pattern " "do not evaluate the game"

Well said.  I think it's because if analytics.  It's like a religion.   

 

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On 6/22/2021 at 12:40 PM, itsKnoppUitsme said:

Gary Lucas was the pitcher that replaced Witt who was still dominating at that point.

The announcer stated that Gary Lucas has not hit a batter this year and he promptly plunks the next batter.

You know the rest.

 

 

 

Witt gave up a HR to Baylor in the 8th.  Gedman was up and he hit a homer off of Witt earlier in the game.  Mauch went with a L on L situation.  Removing Witt was not a bad move.  Lucus beaning Gedman was.

Edited by stormngt
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11 hours ago, ScottT said:

Damn those people trying be good at their jobs!

Its not really a criticism but more of an observation. Its one way of doing things that, in my opinion, may not always work. I think as long as a manager is consistent in how they approach in-game decisions then they are doing their job to the best of their ability. Plus the owner/GM can better evaluate what they want. When Dodger fan ripped D. Roberts 2 years ago for removing pitchers early in playoff games, I told them that this is his method and he's consistent. I just think that leaving a pitcher in sometimes to overcome might be more efficient, but that is just opinion.

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