Trade Proposals

[Docwaukee]

CJ Cron is going to either be an elite hitter or he's not going to make it. 

 

Since he can't really field a position he is limited by what he can do with the bat

Since he doesn't walk, he's gonna have to hit for a high average and good power in order to stick. 

He will be given a shot, but no team is gonna employ him as a DH if he hits .280 with 25hrs and a .310obp. 

It's kind of a catch 22.  He's gonna have a tough time hitting 35-40hrs if he continues to expand the zone as much as he does unless he were an absolute elite hitter.  Which it doesn't appear that he is.

He's gonna have to hit around .300 with 30 bombs and he will continue to get abs.  Otherwise, there isn't much of a place for him as a DH only. 

 

There are plenty of guys over the years that didn't walk and hit .300 with 30hrs and they were very successful yet they could field a position and therefore they could keep themselves in the lineup with at least some semblance of defense.

 

Not saying that Cron can't stick, but the odds are against him. 

[YouthofToday]

I recognize Arkansas is not a hitter's paradise. That said, a .439 SLG at the age of 23 years and nearly 6 months indicates Cron is most likely a AAAA guy.

Just another terrible GM decision and draft pick by the former regime.

[Hoops McCann]

0 interest in Cozart.

 

less than zero.

[Brent Maguire]

less than zero.

I second this. 

 

.272 OBP this year and he's only a little younger than Aybar with very little of a track record. 

[Hoops McCann]

I second this. 

 

.272 OBP this year and he's only a little younger than Aybar with very little of a track record. 

 

What is truly amazing is that Cozart bats second in the Reds line-up (god bless, Dusty).

 

An OBP of .272 this season (.280 or so for his career) and slugs about .380 or so...for a whopping OPS of .650 or so.

 

And this is the clown that bats in front of Joey Votto.

 

He's got a good glove, but he is woefully insufficient at the plate.

[Angels]

Cron has 7 walks in over 200 at bats. He has absolutely no plate discipline whatsoever. Unless he can be a .300 hitter at the big league level (which is doubtful), he won't be anything more than a bench player.

 

 

A few of Cron's walks have been of the intentional variety, too. So his 'true' walk rate is even worse than that. And what was supposed to be his biggest weapon (power) has mostly been MIA. Not good.

[Hoops McCann]

You know the farm is terrible when...

 

Cron is the best prospect at the AAA level

[Tyler]

<--- Let it be known that I'm the only person that thinks Cron will be as good as Trumbo.

[Brent Maguire]

What is truly amazing is that Cozart bats second in the Reds line-up (god bless, Dusty).

 

An OBP of .272 this season (.280 or so for his career) and slugs about .380 or so...for a whopping OPS of .650 or so.

 

And this is the clown that bats in front of Joey Votto.

 

He's got a good glove, but he is woefully insufficient at the plate.

Yeah, Votto should be hitting 2nd no doubt. That lineup with Choo and Votto followed by Phillips would do some real damage. 

[Brent Maguire]

<--- Let it be known that I'm the only person that thinks Cron will be as good as Trumbo.

I'm not sure how much the offensive philosophy has changed in the past years but there was a Trumbo interview where the message sent to him was that walks really weren't too important, so he continued to hack away.

 

I'm not saying that Cron is getting the same message or their situation is the same but it was interesting to hear that Trumbo basically ditched trying to take any walks due to an offensive mindset for the team. 

 

Maybe Cron does have some ability to walk or an ability to adjust like Trumbo has in the future. The highest BB% Trumbo had in the minors was 9.7% in his monster 2010 year and he's currently posting a 10.5% this year. To me, that screams a player who has made tons of adjustments to improve his walk rate. Obviously, Cron has walked far less than Mark did but even an improvement to 5-7% BB rates could be enough with his power asset. 

 

I'm probably reaching here and Cron really could have a plate recognition issue but Trumbo seemed to have one throughout the minors and now has an ability to take walks above the league average rate. Maybe Cron has a similar work ethic and can improve it. 

[Broad Street]

What I'm understanding from this conversation is that RBI's are all based on luck? So high BA with RISP is just a luck thing right? Kendrick must be the most unlucky player in the majors.

[Turd Ferguson]

The point of the Aybar for Cozart and pitching thought wasn't that Cozart would be the centerpiece; it is the young pitching that I would want.  I don't know Cincy's system but it looks like they have some pitching depth.  For the reasons you all have stated re: Cozart, I think someone like Aybar would make sense for them.  St. Louis could be another fit.

[YouthofToday]

The Walks are a False Stat era ended over a year ago. Thankfully.

[Turd Ferguson]

The Walks are a False Stat era ended over a year ago. Thankfully.

 

Someone should let our pitchers know.

[Angel Oracle]

Was college hitting really that bad in 2011, for Cron to be deemed the best available college hitter in the draft?

He does have some MLB potential.   But how does one hitter essentially abstain from walking, as he seems to have done?

 

And I know that college pitchers can be wilder, but how did he go from a solid walk % in college to this? 

Org philosophy?   Trying to hammer everything?  

 

At this point, we can only hope he can be at least another Billy Butler, and can help to acquire a Halos need from another team.  

[YouthofToday]

Was college hitting really that bad in 2011, for Cron to be deemed the best available college hitter in the draft?

He does have some MLB potential. But how does one hitter essentially abstain from walking, as he seems to have done?

And I know that college pitchers can be wilder, but how did he go from a solid walk % in college to this?

Org philosophy? Trying to hammer everything?

At this point, we can only hope he can be at least another Billy Butler, and can help to acquire a Halos need from another team.

At this point I just hope he will be something more than a AAAA guy. A platoon 1B/DH doesn't have trade value. An average defensive 1B without speed needs to produce at least a .850 OPS to have value. Expecting anything close to this from Cron is wildly optimistic.

[Tyler]

No.

[Brent Maguire]

What I'm understanding from this conversation is that RBI's are all based on luck? So high BA with RISP is just a luck thing right? Kendrick must be the most unlucky player in the majors.

RBI's are based on where you are in the lineup. You can plug in a mediocre hitter in the #3 hole and he can get lots of RBI's if there are high OBP guys in front. 

 

They aren't completely worthless but they're near the bottom as far as using them for assessing players. 

[SoWhat]

This board really sucks at staying on topic

[Mark68]

I just realized how awful the Angels' pitching depth is at AA. Holy christ.

Why do you think the Angels drafted about 150 pitchers this year?

[Mark68]

Cron might be a fringe platoon bat at the major league level. That walk rate is absolutely awful.

 

I remember being excited about him because he hit for average, power AND walked. But nobody will succeed with that discipline. 

There is something that Jason Parks (and other prospect guys at BP) talk about when evaluating tools on minor leaguers. There is a hit tool, and a power tool. Some guys (like Cron) score really high on the power tool (60-80 on the 20-80 scale), but they all say that unless prospects have at least an average hit tool (50ish), then the power will not play well enough. And in Cron's case, since he profiles best as a DH and MAYBE at 1B, his hit tool has to be high enough for his power to be a factor, and it absolutely has to be a factor at the position(s) his profile dictates.

[Scott34]

Good explanation, Mark. I'm a big fan of Jason Parks. That guy is legit.

Simply put, Cron isn't going to turn into a gold glover or speedster. So he has to hit and hit some more. It hasn't happened.

[tdawg87]

Weaver for Jameson Taillon.