Aybar and Kendrick

[WallyWorld]

are morons. We all applauded their extensions because they seemed like relative bargains, but in reality, committing years and money to players like that is a big mistake and can hurt you in many ways, like leaving a prospect with no place to play and forcing the team to trade him (e.g. Segura).  

 

Neither one of them has any type of approach at the plate, they just go up there hacking in every situation.  Case in point, last night after a 3 hour rain delay, Erick Aybar swings at the very first pitch he sees from Hunter and makes an easy out.  Even Victor and Gubi couldn't hide their disbelief on the air.  They also make bone-headed errors in the field on routine plays.  They're just not the kind of players you win with, IMO.  Lots of talent, usually put up good numbers, but always find a way to hurt the team in small ways.  Death by a thousand paper cuts style.

 

My point is, we all point the finger at Pujols and Hamilton and say they were awful signings - well, sometimes it's the lower cost signings that hurt you just as much.

[SigBaby]

They suck. Let's trade them then sign Cano and whoever the best shortstop available next year for way more money then they deserve. Aybar and Kendrick are the least of our worries.

[DropOfAnaheim]

Dipoto went completely against his doctrine with Aybar and Kendrick. He stated that "He who controls the count, controls the game". This was his offensive and defensive philosophy. Then he extends two of the biggest hackers in the game in Fubar and DP 47. Then he signed Hamilton. He gave the boss one vision, and delivered another. Dipoto is a failure. 

[Brent Maguire]

Have you seen the 2nd baseman and shortstops around baseball? Not only are these guys both top 10 at their position(Howie top 5 this year), they have very team friendly deals. 

 

Howie has a .819 OPS and, maybe more importantly with this team, a .915 with RISP. He's been great this year. 

 

Aybar has sucked but he put together a few solid years in a row and he could easily turn it around. He was the best hitting shortstop in baseball after the ASB last year. 

[DropOfAnaheim]

Segura was an easy call to make. Many fans wanted him to replace Aybar right away, not even knowing if he would put up the same numbers as Aybar. The Aybar extension was a major waste and fail of allocating resources to a maxed out player with questionable thinking skills. The Kendrick extension was not high on my list of huge mistakes, but again he is not the type of player who you build a patience approach team around.

[shellback]

if kendrick plays long enough, he will become the all time leader in GIDP. this guy couldn't hit a breaking ball to save his ass.

[Jimmag]

 Howie take that .317 average and leave now.

[OregonLAA]

Kendrick might be our offensive MVP. As many GIDP's as he has, he has come through quite a few times this year. And Aybar has always been a solid SS. Nothing amazing. Just solid. Who knew Segura would be this good? Our prospects rarely work out

[mtangelsfan]

Hilarious, Kendrick has been one of our best players this season.  Anyone can pull one stat out of their ass and make it seem like a player isn't good.

 

I get the frustration, but Kendrick has actually been one of the few bright spots this season.

[jshep]

We're all aware that the Aybar and Kendrick extensions are among the few on this team that HAVE worked out pretty well, right?

 

They're not perfect players, but they've both delivered good value on reasonable deals.

 

The idea that "they're not the kind of players you win with" is just odd.

 

And the Kendrick and Aybar extensions didn't FORCE the team to trade Segura. That was a function of the team's perhaps ill-advised perpetual desire to be all in

 

And I still don't think trading Segura was the problem, as much as trading Segura for a rental was. If we managed to get a top tier pitching prospect for Segura like the Reds did for Didi Gregorious, I would have been fine with that.

[Angel Oracle]

They suck. Let's trade them then sign Cano and whoever the best shortstop available next year for way more money then they deserve. Aybar and Kendrick are the least of our worries.

Please, please, don't sign Cano.   His OPS is on the slide this season (pretty much = Kendrick's); and at a likely 8 years/$200 million is just a repeat of Pujols and Hackilton signings.

[Brent Maguire]

We're all aware that the Aybar and Kendrick extensions are among the few on this team that HAVE worked out pretty well, right?

 

They're not perfect players, but they've both delivered good value on reasonable deals.

 

The idea that "they're not the kind of players you win with" is just odd.

Guys like Don Kelly and Barry Zito are winning players because their teams were in the World Series last year!

[Mark68]

We're all aware that the Aybar and Kendrick extensions are among the few on this team that HAVE worked out pretty well, right?

 

They're not perfect players, but they've both delivered good value on reasonable deals.

 

The idea that "they're not the kind of players you win with" is just odd.

 

And the Kendrick and Aybar extensions didn't FORCE the team to trade Segura. That was a function of the team's perhaps ill-advised perpetual desire to be all in

 

And I still don't think trading Segura was the problem, as much as trading Segura for a rental was. If we managed to get a top tier pitching prospect for Segura like the Reds did for Didi Gregorious, I would have been fine with that.

Name me one perfect player. Every player has something that they're not good at. Even Trout & Cabrera have flaws...not many, but there are flaws.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Agreed with jshep.  I wasn't necessarily a fan of their signings (nor was I adamant they were bad) but they were both extended at reasonable prices by baseball standards while being above average at their positions.  The guys behind them were unproven and the Angels were able to lock 2 guys up during the prime of their careers at positions that are fairly weak in MLB.  These two are not the problem it's the big splashes who unless they step it up are going to hurt the team for the next so many years.  I'm not crazy about these guys and their boneheaded plays at times kill me but I can't say they're bad signings given some of the other contracts on this team.

[WallyWorld]

 Howie take that .317 average and leave now.

 

thanks for completely missing the point.  It is possible to go 2 for 4 and still have a bad game.  Let's say one of those outs is a pop-up on a 3-0 pitch with a runner at 3rd and 1 out, and let's say later in the game that player makes a bad relay throw on a potential DP ball, resulting in a run.  And those are EXACTLY the kinds of games those two have, and so fans who don't actually watch the games look at their stats relative to their position and think they must be good players.

[WallyWorld]

Agreed with jshep.  I wasn't necessarily a fan of their signings (nor was I adamant they were bad) but they were both extended at reasonable prices by baseball standards while being above average at their positions.  The guys behind them were unproven and the Angels were able to lock 2 guys up during the prime of their careers at positions that are fairly weak in MLB.  These two are not the problem it's the big splashes who unless they step it up are going to hurt the team for the next so many years.  I'm not crazy about these guys and their boneheaded plays at times kill me but I can't say they're bad signings given some of the other contracts on this team.

 

but you're arguing that they're not bad contracts relative to THIS team, which has 2 (3 if you count the money we're still playing Wells) of the worst contracts in the game.  I'm talking relative to an intelligently run baseball organization.

[Brent Maguire]

8.25 mil/year for a 3 win player at a weak position is a good deal no matter how you look at it. He's average/slightly above average defensively and produces above average BA and SLG%. His OBP is weak but you're going to get flaws with a player who isn't making that much. The GIDP suck and his situational hitting was bad until this year but Howie's a solid all around player, no matter how you look at it. 

[Docwaukee]

If howie had a high obp and got on base a ton, he'd be one of the elite 2bmen in baseball and one of the most highly coveted.  As A_B mentioned, at about 8mil per, you aren't going to get mike Trout. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

but you're arguing that they're not bad contracts relative to THIS team, which has 2 (3 if you count the money we're still playing Wells) of the worst contracts in the game.  I'm talking relative to an intelligently run baseball organization.

 

Please let me know which are the "intelligently run baseball organizations."  These guys are above average at their positions, both were extended after having good years and they followed those up with solid years in year 1 of their contracts.  8M a year for above average players at their positions in the prime of their career is not the sign of a poorly run organization, it's the opposite.  It's a no win situation for this franchise - sign someone and people piss and moan, don't sign them or trade them and people piss and moan. 

[EDinTUSTIN]

They suck. Let's trade them then sign Cano and whoever the best shortstop available next year for way more money then they deserve. Aybar and Kendrick are the least of our worries.

That has worked so well for us over the past two years. I do wish, though, that we still had Segura and had gotten rid of Aybar instead. Yeah, Howie's propensity for the killer dp and the low and away strikeout is still frustrating, but he has been a pretty steady bat overall this season. He is not elite, but certainly he is not the problem with this team.

[Michifan]

Hilarious, Kendrick has been one of our best players this season.  Anyone can pull one stat out of their ass and make it seem like a player isn't good.

 

I get the frustration, but Kendrick has actually been one of the few bright spots this season.

Yes this. I can't believe anyone is complaining about Kendrick this year. Have you not been following the season? Chose any of 7 other guys. 

[tdawg87]

I give Kendrick as much crap as anyone but this is an odd time to make this thread. He leads the team in Avg and has a respectable OPS.

He is by no means great but he is better than average. And his contract is as team friendly as it gets.

[LAAFANofLA]

Howie is the least of our worries. He's actually been pretty solid this year.

 

Aybar's errors are a pretty big deal.

[WallyWorld]

They suck. Let's trade them then sign Cano and whoever the best shortstop available next year for way more money then they deserve. Aybar and Kendrick are the least of our worries.

 

exactly the opposite of my point. They DO suck, but I'm not advocating replacing them with high priced FAs like Cano.  I'm saying that there would be little drop-off between them and higher-IQ replacement players making league minimum, and they could have been flipped for help in areas of greater need.

 

People are arguing that they give good value for the money and I'm saying we don't need to be spending ANY money (beyond league minimum or close to it) for players that aren't that valuable once you factor in their boneheaded style of play.  And just as importantly, locking guys like that up in long-term contracts just limits the team's options down the road.

[Scott34]

Good Lord.  Howie Kendrick might be our 2nd best hitter this season.