The elephant in the room...

[ScottT]

Lol

[T.G.]

21 minutes ago, Taylor said:

There's one person who has been a constant figurehead for this team through all the managerial and GM changes. The buck stops with him.

Jose Mota.

[Chuck]

19 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Jose Mota.

Speaking of Mota, did I hear him say last night when the Rays got a late two-run HR to go up 4 runs "it's a new ballgame". WTF

 

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Speaking of Mota, did I hear him say last night when the Rays got a late two-run HR to go up 4 runs "it's a new ballgame". WTF

 

It was new in the fact that it changed from the Halos being within striking distance to being out of it. 

[Angels in 2030]

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, mmc said:

Yes I did and I have since 2015

Then you’ve been wrong since 2015

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Then you’ve been wrong since 2015

POTY candidate

[eligrba]

I will wait for when the Angels have enough competent pitchers before deciding how bad the manager is.

[WicketMaiden]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

There's one person who has been a constant figurehead for this team through all the managerial and GM changes. The buck stops with him.

Stop picking on Angelsjunky.

[mmc]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Then you’ve been wrong since 2015

I'm sure I am, but that's the sense I get when I watch the team.  I don't know any of these guys personally nor do I know what's going through their heads and how they deal with adversary, nor do I claim to.  It's just the sense I get when I watch the team.  If you're going to tell me otherwise though, I'd like to at least have a legitimate reason as to why this isn't a concern.

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, mmc said:

I'm sure I am, but that's the sense I get when I watch the team.  I don't know any of these guys personally nor do I know what's going through their heads and how they deal with adversary, nor do I claim to.  It's just the sense I get when I watch the team.  If you're going to tell me otherwise though, I'd like to at least have a legitimate reason as to why this isn't a concern.

Because it’s their job and something they’ve spent their whole lives trying to achieve. And you’re suggesting they don’t care about it enough just because you don’t see them throw tantrums like a 3 year old when things don’t go their way. 
 

 

[failos]

[mmc]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Because it’s their job and something they’ve spent their whole lives trying to achieve. And you’re suggesting they don’t care about it enough just because you don’t see them throw tantrums like a 3 year old when things don’t go their way. 
 

 

Jeff, that is not at all what I said, and I know you're well aware of that.  I did not say anything about anyone throwing a tantrum, but when is the last time someone on the team got mad enough during a game to get ejected, broke their bat, showed any level of anger towards the opposing pitcher after being hit by a pitch or being thrown at, showed any type of animosity towards their rival in a rivalry game, or had any type of dugout clearing incident?  Why are our pitchers constantly so prone to have worse blow ups than any other team in the league?  Why do we never hear about any of our supposed veteran leaders complaining about losing, try to motivate any of their underperforming teammates, or held a players only meeting because they weren't happy about the team's performance?  We see this with other teams all the time, we see divisional opponents have heated games that feel like competitive rivalries, why do we not see this things with the Angels?  

[failos]

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

15 minutes ago, mmc said:

Jeff, that is not at all what I said, and I know you're well aware of that.  I did not say anything about anyone throwing a tantrum, but when is the last time someone on the team got mad enough during a game to get ejected, broke their bat, showed any level of anger towards the opposing pitcher after being hit by a pitch or being thrown at, showed any type of animosity towards their rival in a rivalry game, or had any type of dugout clearing incident?  Why are our pitchers constantly so prone to have worse blow ups than any other team in the league?  Why do we never hear about any of our supposed veteran leaders complaining about losing, try to motivate any of their underperforming teammates, or held a players only meeting because they weren't happy about the team's performance?  We see this with other teams all the time, we see divisional opponents have heated games that feel like competitive rivalries, why do we not see this things with the Angels?  

 

I like MMC, but I couldn't resist.

 

Just a couple weeks ago:

 

 

[failos]

21 minutes ago, mmc said:

Jeff, that is not at all what I said, and I know you're well aware of that.  I did not say anything about anyone throwing a tantrum, but when is the last time someone on the team got mad enough during a game to get ejected, broke their bat, showed any level of anger towards the opposing pitcher after being hit by a pitch or being thrown at, showed any type of animosity towards their rival in a rivalry game, or had any type of dugout clearing incident?  Why are our pitchers constantly so prone to have worse blow ups than any other team in the league?  Why do we never hear about any of our supposed veteran leaders complaining about losing, try to motivate any of their underperforming teammates, or held a players only meeting because they weren't happy about the team's performance?  We see this with other teams all the time, we see divisional opponents have heated games that feel like competitive rivalries, why do we not see this things with the Angels?  

[Angel Oracle]

The other elephant in the room:

[Blarg]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

There's one person who has been a constant figurehead for this team through all the managerial and GM changes. The buck stops with him.

Leave Albert out of this.

[ScottT]

8 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Speaking of Mota, did I hear him say last night when the Rays got a late two-run HR to go up 4 runs "it's a new ballgame". WTF

 

He will never top this 

 

I'm a harsh critic, though.  I think one of Vin Scully's most famous calls was ridiculous.  The impossible doesn't happen.

[Pancake Bear]

6 hours ago, mmc said:

Jeff, that is not at all what I said, and I know you're well aware of that.  I did not say anything about anyone throwing a tantrum, but when is the last time someone on the team got mad enough during a game to get ejected, broke their bat, showed any level of anger towards the opposing pitcher after being hit by a pitch or being thrown at, showed any type of animosity towards their rival in a rivalry game, or had any type of dugout clearing incident?  Why are our pitchers constantly so prone to have worse blow ups than any other team in the league?  Why do we never hear about any of our supposed veteran leaders complaining about losing, try to motivate any of their underperforming teammates, or held a players only meeting because they weren't happy about the team's performance?  We see this with other teams all the time, we see divisional opponents have heated games that feel like competitive rivalries, why do we not see this things with the Angels?  

It isn't always visible on the field or reported on. I would have had no clue back in 2014 that utility infielder, John McDonald, was a clubhouse leader and probably a bigger part of the team making the playoffs than anyone watching would have known. You not seeing it or being unaware of it makes zero difference as to what is going on behind the scenes. Your perception (and mine), frankly, is worthless. You see what you want to see. We all do.

[Jason]

We can try to place blame on the manager or accuse the players of not having the drive to succeed but that’s just an excuse. The bottom line is they are not a good team. As fans we don’t want to believe that but it’s true. There is no way to get around the lousy pitching and defense. It doesn’t matter who the manager is, what he says or does. Even with “better” bullpen management the talent is still mediocre. 

[Inside Pitch]

17 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The manager doesn’t shift. 
 

The other day he basically said flat out the analytics guys figure out the defensive positioning in MLB these days. 

Did he also say he has to follow what the data says?  Can you ask him if that's the case? 

And if that's the case then what was all his yammering about the game being too much about the numbers in some cases and that there needs to be more "soul" or whatever it was he phrased it as.   Also, what analytics is telling the team to set up and pitch against the shift, because A, I don't believe that sort of data exists, and B, that's been happening.  I realize the Angels have access to much better info than any of us fans have access to, but either there is a gross disconnect between what the data is saying and how they are employing it or they are very bad at reading data.  Some of what we have been seeing defies logic unless one is willing to write it off completely as random luck and I'll readily admit if there is going to be an area where random luck and sample size can really skew the data it's with defense so... I'm not going to say it's impossible, but it's crazy. 

Lastly, are the Angels catchers completely in control of the game calling?   Because if Maddon has no say in either the defensive alignments or how the pitchers are working hitters, then what exactly is he "managing" because I'd assume the same analytics department that is driving the defensive shifts and pitch selection would also be the think-tank behind the actual lineup.  

Jeff, I value the things you say and consider you the great white AW.com narrative buster, but Maddon has a history of deflecting blame.  He threw the players under the bus in Chicago, he had his issues with that in Tampa as well.  If he's not at all remotely involved with the defensive alignments despite the defense possibly being the biggest cause for the vast difference between expected data and actual performance then it would seem that some of his pre-season rhetoric about feel, and playing like it's 1985 was just empty talk.

[failos]

Oh snap

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Jeff, I value the things you say and consider you the great white AW.com narrative buster, but Maddon has a history of deflecting blame.  He threw the players under the bus in Chicago, he had his issues with that in Tampa as well.  If he's not at all remotely involved with the defensive alignments despite the defense possibly being the biggest cause for the vast difference between expected data and actual performance then it would seem that some of his pre-season rhetoric about feel, and playing like it's 1985 was just empty talk.

You think if the analytics department shows Maddon a chart that says Player A hits the ball here against this type of pitcher that he’s going to say “Nah, I disagree with that chart.” I’m sure there is some wiggle room like “But I disagree that this pitcher fits that description.” But he’s not going to just reject the data or decide on his own to move a guy another 10 feet because of his “feel.” No manager is. No manager would ever get hired any more if he did that. 
 

What is he managing? He is managing the people. That’s what managers do. They don’t have a huge impact on wins and losses. That’s what I’ve been telling you guys for the last 8 years. 

[Jay]

Maybe the postgame interviews should be with the analytics guys and not Maddon.