The elephant in the room...

[T.G.]

Thoughts?

 

Most of the people in this forum wanted him in the worst way.  Now, many of them openly complain about his managerial decisions and style. @Jeff Fletcher was right - regardless of who is managing, fans always find fault with the manager.

I've never really been enamored with the guy for some reason.

It's interesting to see how fans are reacting to him now.  So, let's talk about it...

[mmc]

No manager will make up for this teams continuous lack of pitching talent

[Second Base]

Give credit and blame where it's due.

Jared Walsh likely wouldn't be the force he is without Maddon. Shohei Ohtani wouldn't be unleashed like he had unless a manager made the exact decisions Maddon has. Maddon lobbied for Chris Rodriguez to make the Opening Day roster and he's probably their best reliever. There is no amount of maneuvering that can overcome a Jose Quintana start. He isn't specifically losing games based on his personnel decisions.

His bullpen choices leave a lot to be desired. Until Watson got hurt, he should've trusted him way more. He has the track record and recent performance you're looking for. Pitching Mayers every single day until he went on the IL is a recipe for disaster. I love the aggressive base running, but don't let them make stupid decisions in the name of pressure. Ohtani trying to stream 3B last night with Trout at the plate was completely unnecessary.

At the end of the day, the biggest job a manager has, likely occurs in the clubhouse. And as far as the clubhouse goes, there's none better than Joe Maddon. 

He's a good manager. He's NOT a miracle worker.

[T.G.]

6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Give credit and blame where it's due.

 Shohei Ohtani wouldn't be unleashed like he had unless a manager made the exact decisions Maddon has.

I like the fact that he's turned Ohtani loose, so to speak.  I am tired of hearing him tell us how great his relationship/communication is with Ohtani.

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, cals said:

Also, it’s kind of a dick move to makes posts about elephants being in the room on a message board full of fat guys.  Cmon.

Hey speak for yourself big guy! 

[Justin]

I like him more than I liked Ausmus. 

And not nearly as much as I liked Scioscia. 

But the Angels starters have the worst ERA in the league. Fair or not, there aren't going to be a lot of positive attitudes towards the coaches or front office as long as that's the case.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Maddon isn’t the main issue. Yeah he’s made some mistakes, but all managers do. The guy is well respected around the league and has hadwinners in Tampa and Chicago. You can’t put a lot of blame on the manager when the owner/gm keep dumpster diving for fucking starting and relief pitching. 
 

you could have god managing us right now and as long as The likes of Cobb, Quintana, Blanton, Teheran, Harvey, etc...are being trotted out there; we are going to continue to be a .500 or sub .500 ball club. 

[rageous]

I don't have a big problem with Maddon but I am worried about his loyalty to Quintana. 

He keeps bringing up how good he used to be when he managed the Cubs but his lack of control seems to be a continuing issue on the year.

Angels need to pull him out of the rotation before its too late.  Its just too many games they are giving away by starting Quintana over and over.

[TheLordofOuts]

Maddon is a Quintana and Raisel away from having a 1st place team. 

[Stradling]

34 minutes ago, TheLordofOuts said:

Maddon is a Quintana and Raisel away from having a 1st place team. 

Not if he keeps putting the defense at a disadvantage, by either not giving a shit about defense or by shifting in a way that puts them at a disadvantage because of where the ball ends up going.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Not if he keeps putting the defense at a disadvantage, by either not giving a shit about defense or by shifting in a way that puts them at a disadvantage because of where the ball ends up going.  

The manager doesn’t shift. 
 

The other day he basically said flat out the analytics guys figure out the defensive positioning in MLB these days. 

[WicketMaiden]

I like that he employs a settled line-up and a good, logical one at that. He seems sensible with his use of bench players.

I like his interviews: he seems like a guy I'd really enjoy having a couple of beers with and is clearly extremely knowledgeable about the game.

I like that he is popular with people he has managed previously, and I like the way he pushes young players to develop and seems to give them the time to find themselves.

I like the aggressive base-running and old-school baseball he promotes.

 

I don't like the way he uses the bullpen. I think he pulls some too early and over-uses others. 

I don't like that he seems to be too nice and by extension the team is too nice. If you look at the absolute very best of the best leaders, they all have a little bit of bastard in them and I don't see that in Joe, or in the team. 

 

All in all, I don't see how anyone else could do much better aside from better bull-pen use - but then maybe that's just because the pen isn't very good.

[HaloSpurs]

Honestly, you may want to take what I say with a pinch of salt because I am undoubtedly biased and a bit of a homer towards Maddon due to the support he has given to us over here in the UK and what a truly great guy I think he is; but I genuinely don’t think there is a better manager for the Angels right now than Joe.

 

@Second Baselisted a lot of his decisions in this and I don’t think you can read that and not agree that in reality he is getting a lot right, and is in then with a lot of what the franchise wants. It may backfire if he gets injured but his handling of Shohei this year taking the training wheels off has made us such an exciting team to watch, given us a chance to appreciate just what a special talent he is and helped us win games.

He can’t do too much about the rotation but he’s been quick with the hook when he’s needed to be and while there have undoubtedly been some questionable bullpen decisions which have backfired, I don’t think his handling of it has been a net negative overall.

I think in terms of roster decisions im slightly uncomfortable with his usage of Albert and I think we needed to make a move to have Walsh at first most days and someone else (Ward maybe) out in right. 
 

This is a really tough stretch and results aren’t going our way, but this team still feels different. There’s more energy, more drive, more aggression - this comes from the manager and personally I love to see it.

 

[Blarg]

Maddon was a great bench coach.

[mmc]

Arguably my biggest issue with the the team, which Maddon may or may not be contributing to is the team just seems completely mentally weak.  They play with no edge, they don’t ever seem pissed about any amount of poor play, the starters are the most prone to blowing up of any team in the league, you look at every contending team and they play with substantially more heart, emotion, and energy than the Angels do, and that to me is one of the biggest reasons they’re continuously mediocre.  Just appears to be the acceptable standard at all levels of the organization.

[Angels 1961]

I miss Bill Rigney best manager Angels ever had. If you would have told me Trout, Ohtani and Walsh would have numbers they have I would say we were in first place. Until Pujols era is over this team will struggle.

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 minutes ago, mmc said:

Arguably my biggest issue with the the team, which Maddon may or may not be contributing to is the team just seems completely mentally weak.  They play with no edge, they don’t ever seem pissed about any amount of poor play, the starters are the most prone to blowing up of any team in the league, you look at every contending team and they play with substantially more heart, emotion, and energy than the Angels do, and that to me is one of the biggest reasons they’re continuously mediocre.  Just appears to be the acceptable standard at all levels of the organization.

Did you think that when they were 7-3 and had a bunch of comeback victories?

[Angels in 2030]

'Blame the Manager' in MLB is one of the funniest fan complaints of their team's lack of success

[mmc]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Did you think that when they were 7-3 and had a bunch of comeback victories?

Yes I did and I have since 2015

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The manager doesn’t shift. 
 

The other day he basically said flat out the analytics guys figure out the defensive positioning in MLB these days. 

That's very interesting... because Maddon has been receiving some criticism here for the shift.   So, he doesn't have a say in the defensive alignment at all?

Edited May 4, 2021 by True Grich

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The manager doesn’t shift. 
 

The other day he basically said flat out the analytics guys figure out the defensive positioning in MLB these days. 

While that may be correct, Maddon is the manager of the team and can override what the analytical guys upstairs have drawn out for opposing batters prior to the game. 

I mean you'd think he could have a conversation with the analytical folks upstairs and say he guys, this shit ain't working. Let me make the call. 

My biggest beef with Maddon is how he manages the bullpen. I like nearly everything else about him as I've stated elsewhere. 

[stormngt]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

That's very interesting... because Maddon has been receiving some criticism here for the shift.   So, he doesn't have a say in the defensive alignment at all?

Manager should have say in shift.  Sorry but analytics should give insight of where they should play.  It shouldn't dictate where they should play.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Manager should have say in shift.  Sorry but analytics should give insight of where they should play.  It shouldn't dictate where they should play.

No doubt. I'm just trying to get clarification if he actually makes the final decision.

[Taylor]

There's one person who has been a constant figurehead for this team through all the managerial and GM changes. The buck stops with him.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

There's one person who has been a constant figurehead for this team through all the managerial and GM changes. The buck stops with him.

I've been saying this for years.