Ohtani isn't a 2 hitter

[sammyscioscia]

This probably doesn't require a thread but it needs to be said, Ohtani is a slugger and a clean-up type hitter.  Trout gets on base more often and should bat in front of Ohtani.  I'll keep saying it even if the haters keep hating, I'll sing it from the mountain tops.

[tdawg87]

I actually agree with you.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Flip Ohtani and Rendon in the order?

[tdawg87]

Just now, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

Flip Ohtani and Rendon in the order?

Not a terrible idea. I'd rather see Trout hitting 2nd with Ohtani batting 3rd, Rendon 4th, Walsh 5th etc...

[sammyscioscia]

I feel like the 2 spot puts too much pressure on him, especially to 'get on base' instead of purely focusing on driving the ball.

[Stradling]

Fletcher

Trout

Ohtani

Rendon

Walsh

Upton

works for me. 

[Stradling]

Just now, sammyscioscia said:

I feel like the 2 spot puts too much pressure on him, especially to 'get on base' instead of purely focusing on driving the ball.

You make a good point then you say this which means your good idea was for a dumb reason. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Not a terrible idea. I'd rather see Trout hitting 2nd with Ohtani batting 3rd, Rendon 4th, Walsh 5th etc...

Yep

[Taylor]

Ohtani is doing very well in the 2 spot, so let's move him.

[Chuck]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Fletcher

Trout

Ohtani

Rendon

Walsh

Upton

works for me. 

Agreed! 

[sammyscioscia]

I explained myself poorly, what I'm trying to say is that the #2 spot is very difficult to excel at, Trout is more than capable of filling that role.  More capable than anyone in baseball.  I'm not saying Ohtani has poor on base ability, just that he will get on base less frequently than Trout.

[Angels 1961]

Ohtani and Trout both having good years. If it's working why change it?  

[failos]

1 hour ago, sammyscioscia said:

I explained myself poorly

Agreed

[Slegnaac]

Why should Trout have less RBI opportunities?

[sammyscioscia]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Ohtani and Trout both having good years. If it's working why change it?  

They are both very good players and will look good anywhere they play, but they should be utilized to their best strengths. Trout would also be a very good 6 hitter, does that mean he should stay there? Of course not!

Do you catch my wave?

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

Flip Ohtani and Rendon in the order?

Career stats says Rendon does not perform well in the #2 spot and is most effective 3rd or 4th. Some guys just mentally handle the #2 spot while others don't. So far in Ohtani's short career his # 2 numbers are not goood. He performs better in the 3,4 &5 spots.

Strange as it may be Upton's career numbers are nearly identical in the #2 spot as 3, 5,6. The four spot seems to be his worst perfromance. 

[Stradling]

It’s also possible Ohtani is performing like this because Trout bats behind him in the line up. 

[failos]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

It’s also possible Ohtani is performing like this because Trout bats behind him in the line up. 

Exactly. And why tinker with something that’s working very well?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, sammyscioscia said:

I explained myself poorly, what I'm trying to say is that the #2 spot is very difficult to excel at, Trout is more than capable of filling that role.  More capable than anyone in baseball.  I'm not saying Ohtani has poor on base ability, just that he will get on base less frequently than Trout.

You're not saying it but it's true none the less. 

Moving him down the lineup isn't likely to help him any, if anything it will likely make his all or nothing approach easier to exploit.   Hitting in front of Trout, pitchers have to be wary of Ohtani getting on base and then having to deal with Trout and runners on base -- check Ohtani's numbers .vs pitch types if you doubt he's benefiting from being in front of Trout https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/shohei-ohtani-660271?stats=statcast-r-batting-mlb&playerType=batter. 

Lineup construction isn't simply about putting guys with certain tools in specific spots but rather it's taking those guys and aligning them in such a manner as to achieve maximum possible output..   Trout is the significantly better hitter with men on base, both this year and for their careers.   If anything, Ohtani needs to be less of a hack -- not only does him getting on base more likely translate into more team production but his splits show he's a monster when he gets 3-1 counts and the sort.

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s also possible Ohtani is performing like this because Trout bats behind him in the line up. 

.518 wOBA .vs FBs
.352 wOBA .vs breaking balls
.189 wOBA .vs offspeed pitches
 

Does anyone really believe he will see more FBs without Trout and Rendon hitting behind him?

[Taylor]

Hey guys, I think we should move Chris Rodriguez to RF so he can play every day.

[sammyscioscia]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You're not saying it but it's true none the less. 

Moving him down the lineup isn't likely to help him any, if anything it will likely make his all or nothing approach easier to exploit.   Hitting in front of Trout pitchers have to be wary of him getting on base and then having to deal with Trout and runners on base -- check Ohtani's numbers .vs pitch types if you doubt he's benefiting from being in front of Trout https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/shohei-ohtani-660271?stats=statcast-r-batting-mlb&playerType=batter. 

Lineup construction isn't simply about putting guys with certain tools in specific spots but rather it's taking those guys and aligning them in such a manner as to achieve maximum possible output..   Trout is the significantly better hitter with men on base, both this year and for their careers.   If anything, Ohtani needs to be less of a hack -- not only does him getting on base more likely translate into more team production but his splits show he's a monster when he gets 3-1 counts and the sort.

Your argument is putting Trout behind anyone makes them a 2 hitter, got you.  So Ohtani is nobody without Trout.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, sammyscioscia said:

Your argument is putting Trout behind anyone makes them a 2 hitter, got you.

You either too eager to be a wise ass or too ignorant to understand what's being argued.  Either way it won't end well for you if you want to continue on this path. 

[sammyscioscia]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

You either too eager to be a wise ass or too ignorant to understand what you're being told   Either way it won't end well for you if you want to continue on this path. 

Sensitivity training is in order

[Blarg]

You don't know how much I want this to ramp up.