OC Register: Angels’ Chris Rodriguez could be a future starter, or a high-leverage reliever now

[AngelsWin.com]

As Chris Rodriguez continues to evolve into a big-league pitcher, he is continuing to show Manager Joe Maddon that he could go in a couple of directions with his career.

Maddon said in spring training that Rodriguez looked more like a reliever than a starter, not just in the short-term, but the long term. However, Maddon now says he’s changed his opinion.

“I didn’t know enough,” Maddon said before the Angels played the Astros in Houston on Thursday night. “Now watching him pitch with the changeup, that adds another layer to him. The way he goes out there and competes and is a strike-thrower, he can get quick outs just by challenging with the fastball and having them beat it into the ground. It’s not impossible to see him being a frontline starter too.”

Moving to the rotation would likely be something that would happen in a future season, though.

And in the short term, Maddon said he can see Rodriguez going the other direction, moving more toward the back end of the bullpen. So far the Angels have used him as a multi-inning, middle reliever, and they’ve given him three or four days off after each 30- to 40-pitch outing.

But Maddon said Rodriguez could evolve into a pitcher who works more often, in shorter stints, holding leads in the seventh or eighth inning.

“You trust the guy,” Maddon said. “You trust that the stuff is going to be there. You trust that he’s going to throw a strike. … Hitters don’t like him. They don’t see him really well. and they don’t react well to him.”

All of this is quite unexpected for a 22-year-old who had pitched a total of 9-1/3 innings in regular-season games over the previous three years. He missed almost all of 2018 and 2019 because of a back issue that eventually required surgery, and the pandemic wiped out 2020 for minor leagues.

While he was pitching at the Angels’ alternate site in Long Beach last year, though, he developed the two-seam fastball that has become his signature pitch. It averages 96.6 mph and runs an average of 18.6 inches horizontally, which is the most of any pitcher who has thrown at least 50 two-seamers this season.

The book on Rodriguez in the spring was that he just threw the two-seamer and a slider, however he also throws a curve and a changeup.

“For me, I’d like to perfect all four pitches if I can,” Rodriguez said. “However, one at a time is enough. I’m working on it. Hopefully I won’t even need four pitches (as a reliever). Down the road, if I’m a starter, God-willing, then yeah hopefully all four are there and I can go deep into a game.”

What Rodriguez has right now has helped him to a 3.48 ERA through his first five big-league games and 10-1/3 innings. Two of the four earned runs he’s allowed were charged to him after he was out of the game.

“Every single game you kind of gain comfort,” Rodriguez said. “You learn more about your stuff. I’m starting to gain more knowledge and I expect to gain more knowledge as we continue moving forward.”

ALSO

Third baseman Anthony Rendon (left groin strain), catcher Max Stassi (left thumb sprain) and outfielder Juan Lagares (left calf strain) all traveled with the team to Houston, indicating that they could be ready to be activated any day. …

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Because of Stassi’s imminent return, Taylor Ward is the catcher on the taxi squad. Barring an injury to Kurt Suzuki or Anthony Bemboom in the first day or two of the trip, Bemboom would become the taxi squad catcher once Stassi is activated. …

The Angels also have pitchers Patrick Sandoval, Noe Ramirez and James Hoyt traveling with them as part of the taxi squad.

View the full article

[failos]

Why are the Angels so intent on making Ward exclusively a catcher when we need him at other positions right now?

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

Why are the Angels so intent on making Ward exclusively a catcher when we need him at other positions right now?

Long term flexibility. If he remains an Angel he could be a useful C/OF/1B bench player. But long-term, there is no starting job for him, not with Walsh at 1B and Adell and Marsh on the way up. C actually increases his chances of the Angels carrying him on the roster, otherwise he has to hope for a trade (which he probably hopes for, anyway).

[failos]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Long term flexibility. If he remains an Angel he could be a useful C/OF/1B bench player. But long-term, there is no starting job for him, not with Walsh at 1B and Adell and Marsh on the way up. C actually increases his chances of the Angels carrying him on the roster, otherwise he has to hope for a trade (which he probably hopes for, anyway).

I get that and agree with your logic for the most part, but wouldn’t he be more useful at 3B/RF this series? Once Rendon returns, putting him in RF would eliminate the need for Pujols to start everyday.

I guess I just never understood Ward becoming a catcher again aside from increasing his trade value (and that’s assuming he’s even good at C)

[Angel Oracle]

This is the best way to build up the innings at the right pace, by focusing on relieving this season.

Then at some point in the future, they can convert him into a starter when he’s ready for the workload.

Besides, the Halos need a 3rd late innings guy in the worst way.

And they need to activate Pena for the multiple innings role currently belonging to CRod.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

He threw well yesterday! Should had let him finish the inning and work through 3 innings he was only on 40 pitches. Could had given him 2 days off. Until Saturday...

[Angelsjunky]

I really hope he converts to starter. It just seems a waste of talent, and obviously he wants to start so I think you've got to at least give him a chance. But I don't see it this year. 

That said, if the Angels are out of the playoff hunt come September, why not stretch him out and get a few starts in to prepare for next year?

 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

This is the best way to build up the innings at the right pace, by focusing on relieving this season.

Then at some point in the future, they can convert him into a starter when he’s ready for the workload.

Besides, the Halos need a 3rd late innings guy in the worst way.

And they need to activate Pena for the multiple innings role currently belonging to CRod.

I just don't think this is true at all.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I just don't think this is true at all.  

I think the quotes in the article from Maddon prove it isn't... he's already split between a desire to develop him into a starter and putting him out there two nights in a row in high leverage situations.

[Vlad27Trout27]

They better protect Rodriguez arm or the way that Maddon has been using his bullpen...he might burn him out. Move him into the rotation before that happens. 

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I just don't think this is true at all.  

It is debatable. It used to be more common and I can't remember there being any deleterious effect. 

That aside, I think that Chris Rodriguez's ultimate value will be limited if he becomes a reliever. He's got, at least, #2 stuff, and a #2 starter is more valuable than any reliever, with the possible exception of peak Gagne. I think elite relievers are roughly equivalent to solid #3s, if that.

So if the choice is between CRod being an elite reliever or an oft-injured #3-4, I think the question is debatable. I think it is between an elite reliever and a #2 or better, so they really need to give it a shot.

[Docwaukee]

21 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

It is debatable. It used to be more common and I can't remember there being any deleterious effect. 

That aside, I think that Chris Rodriguez's ultimate value will be limited if he becomes a reliever. He's got, at least, #2 stuff, and a #2 starter is more valuable than any reliever, with the possible exception of peak Gagne. I think elite relievers are roughly equivalent to solid #3s, if that.

So if the choice is between CRod being an elite reliever or an oft-injured #3-4, I think the question is debatable. I think it is between an elite reliever and a #2 or better, so they really need to give it a shot.

to me it's not really debatable.   I think he's got a shot at being an elite starter and the sooner you can make that happen the better.  I don't think being a reliever keeps him from being injured.  Just my opinion.  The up/down thing is underplayed and guys aren't in relief generally because of their inability to stay healthy but because of their stuff.  Yes, it happens, but I contend that being a reliever and having to be ready at any time, warm up, cool off etc is just as if not more taxing than knowing you are going to pitch every five days.  It's more about talent.  

[Angelsjunky]

48 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

to me it's not really debatable.   I think he's got a shot at being an elite starter and the sooner you can make that happen the better.  I don't think being a reliever keeps him from being injured.  Just my opinion.  The up/down thing is underplayed and guys aren't in relief generally because of their inability to stay healthy but because of their stuff.  Yes, it happens, but I contend that being a reliever and having to be ready at any time, warm up, cool off etc is just as if not more taxing than knowing you are going to pitch every five days.  It's more about talent.  

What I was saying is debatable is whether having a future starter begin in the majors as a reliever is harmful or not. That said, I do agree that being a reliever isn't necessarily safer. They tend to put more torque on their arms, throwing harder on a pitch by pitch basis. I'm guessing there aren't any studies, but it may be that throwing 20 fastballs at 98 mph every three days is more dangerous than throwing 40 fastballs at 95 mph every six days.

It may also be that as soon as the minor league season starts, they'll send Rodriguez down to stretch out and get experience as a starter, then bring him up later in the year once he's deemed ready (especially if the team sucks and they trade some of their veteran starters). I'm not suggesting that is what Maddon plans to do, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Docwaukee]

9 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

What I was saying is debatable is whether having a future starter begin in the majors as a reliever is harmful or not. That said, I do agree that being a reliever isn't necessarily safer. They tend to put more torque on their arms, throwing harder on a pitch by pitch basis. I'm guessing there aren't any studies, but it may be that throwing 20 fastballs at 98 mph every three days is more dangerous than throwing 40 fastballs at 95 mph every six days.

It may also be that as soon as the minor league season starts, they'll send Rodriguez down to stretch out and get experience as a starter, then bring him up later in the year once he's deemed ready (especially if the team sucks and they trade some of their veteran starters). I'm not suggesting that is what Maddon plans to do, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh.  gotcha.  I thought you meant harmful in terms of development vs. harmful physically.  

Having him up to get major league outs I understand because he's got such good stuff.  A nice compromise could have been to baby him as part of the rotation and let him pitch 4-5 innings every 6 or 7 days.  But I agree with @Inside Pitch in that it's stunting his ability to get a feel for his third and fourth pitch.  He's been through an order more than once like 9 times in his professional career.  I'm not sure how much that matter, but it's got to at some point.  

I think Maddon loves having Rodriguez and the priority will always be the major league club so I would be very surprised if them send him down.  Hopefully it happens but with the way that the pen has performed, I kinda doubt it will as he's one of their best options.  

[totdprods]

I could see Rodríguez being stretched out as used as a tandem starter as year goes on...

The Florida rainout, Minnesota postponements, and six-man rotation led to a lot of starters sitting around quite a bit the first couple weeks. It’s been out of whack for everyone with guys pitching too much and too little. Gotta let things stabilize out a bit more still.

And since I think the entire pen except Slegers and Rodríguez can’t be optioned, I imagine it’s likely he gets sent down at least once this year, especially if he has a long outing and they need a fresh arm, which could give him a couple turns in a rotation somewhere.

Edited April 23, 2021 by totdprods

[Angels 1961]

12 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

They better protect Rodriguez arm or the way that Maddon has been using his bullpen...he might burn him out. Move him into the rotation before that happens. 

He's only been pitching every 3rd or 4th day around 40 pitches.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Rodriguez should get the chance to start! He has unhitable stuff! Ace like stuff! 

Hitters are only hiting .167 against his simker/2 seamer

Curve .091 

[Jeff Fletcher]

17 hours ago, Φαήλος said:

Why are the Angels so intent on making Ward exclusively a catcher when we need him at other positions right now?

They’re not. They just want him to be capable of it in an emergency. 

[Angel Oracle]

Perry would make it easier to extend CRod’s pitch counts to employ all 4 pitches, if he would get a REAL late innings guy in here.    Iglesias and Mayers are not enough, and there is NO ONE in the current pen beyond them who is remotely a late innings guy.

Pena is the only one who is remotely close to it, but they need his multi innings work.

Speaking of which, Pena has been ready to pitch for several days.   Why the delay to activate him?

This is why Perry’s off-season grade for shoring up late innings is a C/D.   He needed TWO guys, and only brought in ONE.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[T.G.]