if Ohtani keeps this up

[ten ocho recon scout]

... is he better than Trout?

I know Trout is GOAT. And Ohtani has YEARS ahead of him, needing to hit, to even be in the conversation.

But if Ohtani starts once a week, and even at best is like he was yesterday, but continues to hit as he is right now.... is he the better all around player?

And I say that knowing a once a week starter isnt "gold", and that Trout is the better hitter.

[T.G.]

It doesn't matter to me.  It's not an argument that I care about.  Ohtani is just a special, special player.  That's enough for me.

[Dtwncbad]

Quien es mas macho?

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Quien es mas macho?

Fernando Llamas es un poco más macho.

[T.G.]

[sammyscioscia]

There is no precedent, it's perhaps wrong to make a direct comparison.  You do have to factor in that Ohtani doesn't play on the field outside of when he pitches (so far at least).

But if Ohtani continues to do well on both sides, he is in a league of his own and an MVP candidate (which by default makes him a challenger to Trout).

[Second Base]

Trout's likely going to be in that 8-12 win range as long as he stays healthy, most likely selling in around 9. It's awfully difficult to achieve that as a DH. Even if he's the best around (80's montage: you're the best.... Around.... Nothing's gonna ever keep you down), he may be with 3 wins offensively. And on the mound, it's difficult to accumulate value without pitching many innings. Maybe if he was throwing 180 of them, but it's more realistic to expect 120, so maybe another 3 wins or so. 

Even if Ohtani keeps it up, he's still likely "only" two-thirds the player Mike Trout is. Six win season is nothing to sneeze at. Ohtani truly is a unicorn. Trout's just Something else entirely. Not as rare, but more valuable. Simply put, he's probably the greatest player who ever lived. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

I don't think it is possible to compare them, due to the pitching factor. 

 

[Angelsfan1984]

He does break the “but can he pitch” meme. His skill set is great for sure but Trout is on a different planet when it comes to baseball. He will be on the mt Rushmore of baseball If not at the pinnacle while in an angels uniform. 
 

Enjoy what you’re watching fellas. Might not see this again.

[ten ocho recon scout]

18 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I don't think it is possible to compare them, due to the pitching factor. 

 

Thats kind of what Im getting at.

Its one thing to compare different types of hitters. 2012 Trout vs MCab for example.

This is different. 

IF Ohtani stays healthy, for lets say 5 years..... accomplishments aside, he could be the most valuable player all time. 

I know plenty will instantly argue against that. But thinknabout it..... IF Ohtani stays healthy, hed be the first "NBA" MLB player ever. Meaning he plays both defense and offense, and does both at above average level. In the most competitive era ever.

[Angel Oracle]

On 4/21/2021 at 3:00 PM, True Grich said:

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Thats kind of what Im getting at.

Its one thing to compare different types of hitters. 2012 Trout vs MCab for example.

This is different. 

IF Ohtani stays healthy, for lets say 5 years..... accomplishments aside, he could be the most valuable player all time. 

I know plenty will instantly argue against that. But thinknabout it..... IF Ohtani stays healthy, hed be the first "NBA" MLB player ever. Meaning he plays both defense and offense, and does both at above average level. In the most competitive era ever.

If I wrote this you guys would draw and quarter me.

The big question remains "if healthy." Couple that with usage and we don't even know how to project playing time. Will he get 400 PA? 500? More? Will he start 15 games? 20? 25?

We also still don't know how good Ohtani actually is, whether as a hitter or pitcher. From a purely talent perspective, he looks elite at both, but how elite? Can he reduce his walks, and to what degree?

Also, I just don't know how to valuate his two-player status. On one hand, it is extremely impressive from a baseball talent perspective. On the other, I am not sure how much he improves the team over him just starting or hitting and have someone else do the other part. There is also a slight negative element: if he hits when he pitches, once he comes out of the game the Angels have to play NL style for the rest of the game. 

My gut says that there will be some degree of volatility with his numbers, but that if manages to get 500 PA and 25 starts, he could produce some 6-8 WAR seasons and be an MVP candidate. That would make him a superstar, but not Mike Trout - at least not in terms of total run creating (and preventing) value. On the other, I'd say that would be grounds for calling him the best player in the game from a pure talent perspective.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Hes literally the real life version of that goofy al brooks movie where brandon frasier is this superstar 2 way player.

Even if he doesnt "make it"... cant stay healthy, has to just be a hitter. Or they make him just pitch to keep him healthy. He already proven he could do both, at an all star level.

Even if he doesnt "make it", hes the new Bo Jackson.... meaning long career, accomplishments or not, he'll be a legend to anyone whoever saw him.

[TheLordofOuts]

Ohtani’s agent has a huge boner right now. 

[Angel Oracle]

Just don’t DH him then when he pitches.   That’s only one game out of 5-6 where he doesn’t hit.   I’m happy with that, as it’s still some 125-130 DH starts (easily qualifying for AL leaders with at least 502 PAs).

[Justin]

17 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Hes literally the real life version of that goofy al brooks movie where brandon frasier is this superstar 2 way player.

I almost always love your movie references. 

Not this one. 

[eaterfan]

Better than Trout, I would say he is more talented than Trout. Trout is more valuable, but Ohtani can do more things than Trout. A team of 25 Ohtanis would beat a team of 25 Trouts and I don't think it would be close. 

If I were trying to win a WS though, I would take Trout.

[T.G.]

16 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

If I were trying to win a WS though, I would take Trout.

Too easy.

[NorCal Halo]

I want to see Trout pitch before I cast a judgement.

[ten ocho recon scout]

55 minutes ago, Justin said:

I almost always love your movie references. 

Not this one. 

Youd rather I said he was brandon frasier in encino man? Where Ohtani shows up out of nowhere in southern california, doesnt speak english, but is suddenly the most popular?

I never saw the mummy so cant make a shohei reference out of it

[Justin]

17 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Youd rather I said he was brandon frasier in encino man? Where Ohtani shows up out of nowhere in southern california, doesnt speak english, but is suddenly the most popular?

Now I'm picturing Ohtani in 7-Eleven with his head under the Slurpee machine. 

But yes, the more Pauley Shore movies we can discuss, the better. 

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, Justin said:

Now I'm picturing Ohtani in 7-Eleven with his head under the Slurpee machine. 

But yes, the more Pauley Shore movies we can discuss, the better. 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

20 hours ago, Justin said:

But yes, the more Pauley Shore movies we can discuss, the better. 

Its still mind blowing that guy was actually a star. Even as a kid I thought he was an idiot, and not funny.

And if one of his movies comes on today, I will watch it. Every time.

[tdawg87]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

Its still mind blowing that guy was actually a star. Even as a kid I thought he was an idiot, and not funny.

And if one of his movies comes on today, I will watch it. Every time.

Who wouldn't, except Lou?

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Who wouldn't, except Lou?

@Tank is kind of a movie snob