Gameday Thread: Angels vs. Blue Jays (4-9-2021)

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

This team looks great despite Fletcher and Upton kinda sucking and Rendon with zero power. If they can't rolling....

I sorta have my doubts about Upton becoming good again, but if he can just average out to be a bit better than replacement level, and actually provide improved defense in LF, I'll take that as a victory.

I expect both Fletcher and Rendon to ultimately rebound and be rather good.  The first five hitters of our lineup should be an absolute force (Fletcher, Ohtani, Trout, Rendon, Walsh).  Stassi looks to be a legit hitter now, too.  Iglesias, I think, appears to be reverting to his previous offensive form, which is alright because he's fantastic defensively at SS, which is by far more important.  

I think an interesting wildcard will be who plays RF towards the middle/end of the season.  I expect Fowler to maintain that role for a good chunk of time, but I think we could see either Marsh or Ward out there as the season goes on.  Adding Marsh to this lineup in place of Fowler would make it rather incredible, IMO.

Perhaps by mid/end season, we see:  2B Fletcher, DH Ohtani, CF Trout, 3B Rendon, 1B Walsh, LF Upton, RF Marsh, C Stassi, SS Iglesias.  Should be an incredible offense and really strong defense.

[DCAngelsFan]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

I sorta have my doubts about Upton becoming good again, but if he can just average out to be a bit better than replacement level, and actually provide improved defense in LF, I'll take that as a victory.

I expect both Fletcher and Rendon to ultimately rebound and be rather good.  The first five hitters of our lineup should be an absolute force (Fletcher, Ohtani, Trout, Rendon, Walsh).  Stassi looks to be a legit hitter now, too.  Iglesias, I think, appears to be reverting to his previous offensive form, which is alright because he's fantastic defensively at SS, which is by far more important.  

I think an interesting wildcard will be who plays RF towards the middle/end of the season.  I expect Fowler to maintain that role for a good chunk of time, but I think we could see either Marsh or Ward out there as the season goes on.  Adding Marsh to this lineup in place of Fowler would make it rather incredible, IMO.

It's probably hoping for too much - but I'd really like to see Marsh - if he's ready - in RF this year.  

That has the makings of a really formidable lineup.  

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

It's probably hoping for too much - but I'd really like to see Marsh - if he's ready - in RF this year.  

That has the makings of a really formidable lineup.  

Yeah, he might not be ready, but I think he's probably further along than Adell and think there's a chance he could progress enough where he could break into the lineup sometime this year. He'd be a significant upgrade defensively and could actually serve as the backup CF too.

Defensively, this team is really strong, but we are weak in RF and LF.  Adding Marsh would make Upton our only defensive weakness, and he's even shown some improvement out there such that he might be average at some point.  If he regresses, then we could always put Lagares in the late innings to serve as a defensive replacement.

[wopphil]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I sorta have my doubts about Upton becoming good again, but if he can just average out to be a bit better than replacement level, and actually provide improved defense in LF, I'll take that as a victory.

I am now concerned about Upton as well. I am a big fan of his and see no reason why there shouldn’t still be plenty left in the tank. But his swing and miss tendencies are concerning. 

[eligrba]

47 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, he might not be ready, but I think he's probably further along than Adell and think there's a chance he could progress enough where he could break into the lineup sometime this year. He'd be a significant upgrade defensively and could actually serve as the backup CF too.

Defensively, this team is really strong, but we are weak in RF and LF.  Adding Marsh would make Upton our only defensive weakness, and he's even shown some improvement out there such that he might be average at some point.  If he regresses, then we could always put Lagares in the late innings to serve as a defensive replacement.

1.  Upton is playing solid defense this season in left field.  He looks like a different player.

2.  What is it about Fowler that suggests he is not a decent fielder? Not great, but decent; makes the plays he should make.

3.  No one knows how good Marsh will be defensively until he plays at the major league level.

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I am now concerned about Upton as well. I am a big fan of his and see no reason why there shouldn’t still be plenty left in the tank. But his swing and miss tendencies are concerning. 

He has always been a streaky hitter...and when hitters are in a streak, they might think they can hit anything which could lead to bad pitch choices.  I am not worried because last year Upton showed that he is coachable. Being coachable is underrated.  He will make the adjustments and be fine.  He will never be the consistent hitter we all hope for, but if he can give the team good at bats all of the time, he will be hard to replace.

[Warfarin]

19 minutes ago, eligrba said:

1.  Upton is playing solid defense this season in left field.  He looks like a different player.

2.  What is it about Fowler that suggests he is not a decent fielder? Not great, but decent; makes the plays he should make.

3.  No one knows how good Marsh will be defensively until he plays at the major league level.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=lf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=10&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d&page=2_30

Per Fangraphs, he is #59 of #60 in terms of his defensive rating in LF of those who have at least 10 plate appearances.  Granted it is a crude measurement of defense, and while he looks better in terms of the "eye test" than he has previously, I think he's still likely considered an inferior fielder, as he has not been considered decent for many years.

Fowler, by the same measurement, is #25 of #47 for RFers, so perhaps he's decent.

I agree that we don't know how good Marsh will be defensively, but the scouting reports certainly make him sound rather good out there, but yes - we cannot know until we see it.  Defense, though, is something that should usually translate well from the minors to the majors (as opposed to offense).

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I honesty pay no attention to advanced metrics.

What does Fanographs say about Jo Adell's defense in the minors?

That's fine.  I like advanced metrics but I recognize it is not for everyone.

Fangraphs does not assess minor leaguers' defense in terms of advanced metrics.  It did have him as one of the worst defenders in RF last year, which agrees with the eye test.

FWIW, this is their write-up of Marsh last season:

Quote

Marsh is a better outfield defender that Adell and projects as a clean fit in center field, which, so long as this development holds, should enable him to be an above-average everday player.

He is projected as a CF, so I would assume he should project well in RF, but again - we'll see.  Fangraphs has Adell pegged as a LF (per his last scouting report, which was written prior to his debut last season).

[Angel Oracle]

17 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

That's fine.  I like advanced metrics but I recognize it is not for everyone.

Fangraphs does not assess minor leaguers' defense in terms of advanced metrics.  It did have him as one of the worst defenders in RF last year, which agrees with the eye test.

FWIW, this is their write-up of Marsh last season:

He is projected as a CF, so I would assume he should project well in RF, but again - we'll see.  Fangraphs has Adell pegged as a LF (per his last scouting report, which was written prior to his debut last season).

This is why I wonder if ultimately in two years, Adams (CF) is the 3rd OF with Trout and Marsh.   His defense has off the charts potential, and his plate discipline has improved since his first season in the minors.

[Revad]

Adams, Adell and Marsh is a good problem to have.  F’ing Eppler

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

This is why I wonder if ultimately in two years, Adams (CF) is the 3rd OF with Trout and Marsh.   His defense has off the charts potential, and his plate discipline has improved since his first season in the minors.

If Adams has a strong developmental year, then one of Adell, Marsh, or Adams becomes a prime trade chip.  Marsh is already a top 50 MLB prospect (Fangraphs has him a top 15 prospect), and if Adams has a good year at the plate, then given how he projects defensively, he’s probably a top 50 prospect too.

Can use one of them in a deal for a significant SP acquisition.  My guess is it would be one of Adams or Adell, given that Marsh helps provide LHH balance to our lineup, to go along with Ohtani and Walsh.  We're otherwise fairly RHH dominant.

[Erstad Grit]

I've been a HARSH critic of Upton's defense in the past but he looks good this year. He simply needs to hit at a respectable rate. .250, 25 bombs. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 4/9/2021 at 5:56 PM, failos said:

You need to be very very careful with your words right now, sir

how so