Time for Heaney to step up

[Angel Oracle]

WTH did he switch to primarily the change up?   Mix it in, yes.

[Dtwncbad]

Baseball is a game of patience.  The last year has used up my patience.

I know without question it is irrational to overreact to one start.  But is this just one start?  Or has Heaney been getting by on “this guy COULD be good” for years now?

My honest emotion is I couldn’t care less if Heaney ever starts another game for the Angels ever again.

Lots of guys “could be good”. . .

Ready to move on.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Heaney's fastball is something to at least dream on. He hit 95 last night. 

He went to the changeup in the 3rd and it got crushed. Not sure why he changed what was working the first 2 innings but Heaney gonna Hean.

His stuff is good. Always has been. It's what's between his ears that makes him what he is.

100% between the ears.  The nutty part is that everything Ive ever heard is that he is very coachable and a very cerebral pitcher.  But the dude just tends to cave...  They should seriously try to find thy psychologist that helped turn Mike Witt around and have him work with Heaney.

[Docwaukee]

there's something about Heaney's stuff that makes him this guy though.   It happens quite a bit where he just looks great for a couple of innings and then goes to shit.  

if you go back and watch the Abreu grand slam it's very telling.  Even before it, Jose Mota, who was field level even commented that the CWS hitters were just sitting on his changeup.  Then he throws one to Abreu.  Stassi sets up in with the glove at the very bottom of the zone (which I thought was sorta odd btw - A changeup in under the hands?)  

It was 85 mph and instead of in, it started dead middle with very slight drift just barely toward the outer part of the zone.  Not even close to the outer margin.  It moved just into the barrel of his swing path.  It had no downward action whatsoever.  Zero.  So it ended up being a batting practice fastball.  

So here my monday morning QB question(s).  I was talking to myself while watching before it happened and thinking - Abreu is aggressive.  He walks about 40 times a year and you can definitely get him to chase so if your gonna miss, miss off the plate.  With all the metrics available these days, wouldn't the catcher absolutely know that when Heaney misses with a changeup it's to his arm side?  When I initially saw Stassi setup up I was thinking - oh good.  A backfoot slider.  

And then we get to the main problem with Heaney.  The consistency of his third pitch.  Mostly it's the change that betrays him.     Once in awhile he's getting some downward action on it and on those outings, he's really really tough.  Last night it was a BP fastball and he threw it for 25% of his pitches.  I don't know if it would help, but maybe make Suzuki his catcher or call the pitches from the dugout.  Even Mota saw it coming for the love of god.  How could it be that no one in the dugout, the guy on the mound and the guy behind the plate didn't see it?  

[Docwaukee]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

100% between the ears.  The nutty part is that everything Ive ever heard is that he is very coachable and a very cerebral pitcher.  But the dude just tends to cave...  They should seriously try to find thy psychologist that helped turn Mike Witt around and have him work with Heaney.

if that's the case and it probably is, then I'm calling out his catcher and the coaching staff in terms of strategy.  The pitch they asked him to throw was poorly executed which Andrew will do on a pretty regular basis.  Especially when the situation gets a bit tight.  

I know it's not as simple as I'm making it out to be, but how come they can't have a better understanding of where he misses with what pitches when his butt starts to pucker?  They asked him to throw a change up down and in and if he executes it well, it's a 1-2-3 double play.   But he didn't and they have to take into account what would happen if he didn't because there was a high probability of that in that particular situation.  

You know why a guy like Mathis has been around so long even though he can't hit worth a shit?   And why Scioscia absolutely loved the guy? (I know you know, so this is mostly rhetorical).  He good at not just knowing how the guy on the mound succeeds, but how they fail.  

They need to stop thinking about Heaney as the guy who flashes ace a few time and game plan around the fact that his change up is below average and what happens when he poorly executes a pitch in certain situations.   

[Inside Pitch]

30 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

You know why a guy like Mathis has been around so long even though he can't hit worth a shit?   And why Scioscia absolutely loved the guy? (I know you know, so this is mostly rhetorical).  He good at not just knowing how the guy on the mound succeeds, but how they fail.  

Weaver recently did a Q&A on his twitter -- someone asked who his favorite catcher was....  "Mathis"   Has a pitcher that worked with him every not said that?

[Taylor]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Heaney's fastball is something to at least dream on. He hit 95 last night. 

He went to the changeup in the 3rd and it got crushed. Not sure why he changed what was working the first 2 innings but Heaney gonna Hean.

His stuff is good. Always has been. It's what's between his ears that makes him what he is.

He's vanilla lefty Ervin Santana.

[Taylor]

30 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Weaver recently did a Q&A on his twitter -- someone asked who his favorite catcher was....  "Mathis"   Has a pitcher that worked with him every not said that?

The power of CERA is strong.

[AngelStew43]

JMO, Ervin Santana was WAY better than Heaney.  Time to turn him into a reliever, and bring Detmers up, before the season gets out of hand. 

[Justin]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

has Heaney been getting by on “this guy COULD be good” for years now?

Absolutely.

If I had to pick one player to represent Angels baseball for the last half-decade, it would be Heaney.

Every year people convince themselves that THIS is the year he's going to put on his big boy pants, and every year he lets us down. The metaphor is obvious.

He seems like a good person, but I am looking forward to him no longer being on the Angels. It will represent a different direction for the pitching staff than what we have seen the last five years, this "Well, if everything goes perfectly, we should be okay" line of thinking, 

 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

JMO, Ervin Santana was WAY better than Heaney.  Time to turn him into a reliever, and bring Detmers up, before the season gets out of hand. 

haha, after day 2 of the season.  I love AW.

[stormngt]

Coaches/Managers often face a dilemma.  Do you go with the guy who is erratic but has greater upside or do you go with the guy who has less upside but is more consistent.  

The choice often is to go with greater upside and "develop him to reach his ceiling".  The dilemma is at what point do you realize that the player will never reach his ceiling and go with the player with less upside but more consistent.?

Too often they stay with the erratic higher upside player too long. 

I believe that is what's happening with Heaney. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by stormngt

[Taylor]

11 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

JMO, Ervin Santana was WAY better than Heaney.  Time to turn him into a reliever, and bring Detmers up, before the season gets out of hand. 

True. Ervin had some really good years and even threw a no hitter.

Maybe Ramon Ortiz is a better comparison.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Coaches/Manag6r often face a dilemma.  Do you go with the guy who is erratic but has greater upside or do you go with the guy who has less upside but is more consistent.  

They choice often is to go with greater upside and "develop him to reach his ceiling".  The dilemma is at what point do you realize that the player will never reach his ceiling and go with the player with less upside but more consistent.?

Too often they stay with the erratic higher upside player too long. 

I believe that is what's happening with Heaney. 

Yeah tough decisions.

Or!  Or you just throw them all into the rotation, go with 6, where the worst one gets the same number of starts as the best one, all under the guise that it is about managing the health of arms.  So that’s a pretty safe space.

A 6 man rotation is especially stupid for teams that have had a hard time having 5 worthy starters.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Taylor said:

True. Ervin had some really good years and even threw a no hitter.

Maybe Ramon Ortiz is a better comparison.

Maybe Andrew Heaney’s twin brother that didn’t pitch past JV in high school is a better comparison.

[Dtwncbad]

Jamie Moyer has 22 more mlb career wins than Bartolo Colon.  My guess is most would flip a coin on which they would want starting a game.

Andrew Heaney has 24 more mlb career wins than me.

With hindsight being 20/20, maybe flipping a coin on who gets the start last night between me and Heaney would not have been a bad idea.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, cals said:

Mickey Callaway would be able to fix Heaney’s issues.  I hope all the cancel culture bros here are happy.

Heaney is who he is, I don't think Callaway would have helped him.  Heaney was still basically this same guy last year, when Callaway was the pitching coach.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

100% between the ears.  The nutty part is that everything Ive ever heard is that he is very coachable and a very cerebral pitcher.  But the dude just tends to cave...  They should seriously try to find thy psychologist that helped turn Mike Witt around and have him work with Heaney.

Too bad Ken Ravizza passed away, Heaney desperately needs his help.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Too bad Ken Ravizza passed away, Heaney desperately needs his help.

I was actually going to @ you to see if you remembered the guy's name.   The impact he had on Mike Witt was instant and incredible.

[Lou]

40 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

JMO, Ervin Santana was WAY better than Heaney.  Time to turn him into a reliever, and bring Detmers up, before the season gets out of hand. 

We're only 1 game out of 1st place.

[tdawg87]

How do you pronounce his name?

I want it to be Hee Nee because it rhymes with weenie. But I think it's Hay nee? 

Andrew Hiney.

[tdawg87]

42 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

JMO, Ervin Santana was WAY better than Heaney.  Time to turn him into a reliever, and bring Detmers up, before the season gets out of hand. 

I fucking love AW.

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How do you pronounce his name?

I want it to be Hee Nee because it rhymes with weenie. But I think it's Hay nee? 

Andrew Hiney.

Haney

[Angels 1961]

Only 1 start early in the season. Minasian do not rush on any Heaney extension just yet.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Jamie Moyer has 22 more mlb career wins than Bartolo Colon.  My guess is most would flip a coin on which they would want starting a game.

Andrew Heaney has 24 more mlb career wins than me.

With hindsight being 20/20, maybe flipping a coin on who gets the start last night between me and Heaney would not have been a bad idea.

No offense, but I’m still giving the ball to Heaney over you.   It’s not all that close.  I’d give the ball to you over @Troll Daddy.  You have more moxie than him.