Angels sign Steve Cishek and Tony Watson (1 year, $1 million a piece)

[Redondo]

Good move by PM to bolster the pen just before the season starts

To get such cap friendly deals is icing on the cake

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

why would we want a guy with that kind of stuff to hone his craft and ramp up to 160+ innings per season when he can be rushed to the majors and pitch 50?

Because geniuses have to prove they are thinking outside the box, even when they aren't.

The curve is probably his 3rd best pitch.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Chris Sale was a reliever his first full two seasons also. No reason the Angels can’t ramp him back up in a year or two. 

Biggest risk to that is they come to rely on him too much as a reliever to where they can’t make that play. 

It’s a good time to utilize Rodriguez this way now and test him, build him back up, and help the big league club as well.

Chris Sale was a two pitch guy with a show me that's 3rd pitch.  He didn't need to learn how to use his full arsenal or refine a 3rd and 4th pitch.   They just aren't similar pitchers.   And yeah you nailed it... The big concern is that they keep him in the role.

 

[totdprods]

17 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Chris Sale was a two pitch guy with a show me that's 3rd pitch.  He didn't need to learn how to use his full arsenal or refine a 3rd and 4th pitch.   They just aren't similar pitchers.   And yeah you nailed it... The big concern is that they keep him in the role.

 

In a typical season, I think I would be much more wary of them using Rodriguez with this way...

But with the pandemic still ongoing, the minors are already disrupted and starting the season delayed. In addition, it's very likely the minors will have a greater threat of more players breaking protocols and players being quarantined or games cancelled. Facilities won't be quite as effective with social distancing. The alt. sites will have competition this year, but it still won't be the same setting. 

Couple that with the fact that the MLB team will have SPs ramping up workload significantly and you have an environment where the Angels can keep working on those things with him while gaining the benefit of him helping the MLB team. 

It won't help his development much if minor league games are lacking in competitive atmosphere or go through multiple delays due to virus issues. The general plain weirdness associated with it might not offer the same edge. 

As we agree, the big threat is he takes root in this role and we never find out...but I'd like to think this is still temporary given how raw he still is and how deep the team's pitching staff just became. Give him a few weeks and send him down once the minors get things figured out and games going and more players get vaccinated. By then, the rotation should be stretched out more and the late-addition relievers should have settled in.

[Angels 1961]

I think he will start season and pitch very little. You will not see him pitch 3 days in a row. Middle inn 5th and 6th and maybe for just 2 outs. Once minor league season starts in May Chris Rod could be sent down. Until Angels figure out bullpen with so many options now. 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Chris Sale was a two pitch guy with a show me that's 3rd pitch.  He didn't need to learn how to use his full arsenal or refine a 3rd and 4th pitch.   They just aren't similar pitchers.   And yeah you nailed it... The big concern is that they keep him in the role.

 

I think if he shows 3 solid pitches, the FO will look to have him pivot back to being a SP down the line.  I've read there are concerns though that his delivery is "too violent" to hold up as a SP.  I personally don't know how valid that may be, but we'll see.

[AngelStew43]

Hoyt still has an option.  One day ago, we didn't have enough options in the bullpen, now we have several.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I think if he shows 3 solid pitches, the FO will look to have him pivot back to being a SP down the line.  

He's shown four plus pitches.   

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I've read there are concerns though that his delivery is "too violent" to hold up as a SP.  I personally don't know how valid that may be, but we'll see.

Where have you seen this said since he's actually pitched last year? 

Fangraphs framed it like this last June without the benefit of having actually seen him throw and based on old reports.

"The injury adds fuel to the speculative fire that Rodriguez’s violent delivery will eventually limit him to the bullpen. It didn’t prohibit him from having starter control, but scouts were concerned about injury."

This was the talk when he was hurt.

Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, The Athletic -- none of them nor any of the scouts that I have spoken to that rave about him since he's been back on the mound believe he has a violent delivery.  The nexus for this fiction was Keith Law's referencing he had some head violence in his delivery, a comment he's made more than once but one that simply means he tends to snap his head forward -- which if you watch him is 100% true.   But there isn't a single scouting report by credible sources that have actually seem him pitch since coming back that thinks his delivery lends itself to future injury.   He's definitely got some head wobble to his delivery thbough  -- all the more reason why he should be working as a SP instead of going all balls out in shorter spurts.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/teams/1000/los-angeles-angels/organizational/
https://theathletic.com/2376056/2021/02/15/keith-law-prospect-rankings-angels/
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/63467/2021-prospects-los-angeles-angels-top-10-prospects/

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

So is the consensus for now that everybody likes these moves? Is everyone more comfortable today about the pen versus yesterday?

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So is the consensus for now that everybody likes these moves? Is everyone more comfortable today about the pen versus yesterday?

They have more options, more known names, but RP volatility is a real thing and it could still be a total shit show.   It's still a world better because more options means more chances they get lucky on a guy on the good side of the RP volatility BS...

[Warfarin]

29 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He's shown four plus pitches.   

Where have you seen this said since he's actually pitched last year? 

Fangraphs framed it like this last June without the benefit of having actually seen him throw and based on old reports.

"The injury adds fuel to the speculative fire that Rodriguez’s violent delivery will eventually limit him to the bullpen. It didn’t prohibit him from having starter control, but scouts were concerned about injury."

This was the talk when he was hurt.

Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, The Athletic -- none of them nor any of the scouts that I have spoken to that rave about him since he's been back on the mound believe he has a violent delivery.  The nexus for this fiction was Keith Law's referencing he had some head violence in his delivery, a comment he's made more than once but one that simply means he tends to snap his head forward -- which if you watch him is 100% true.   But there isn't a single scouting report by credible sources that have actually seem him pitch since coming back that thinks his delivery lends itself to future injury.   He's definitely got some head wobble to his delivery thbough  -- all the more reason why he should be working as a SP instead of going all balls out in shorter spurts.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/teams/1000/los-angeles-angels/organizational/
https://theathletic.com/2376056/2021/02/15/keith-law-prospect-rankings-angels/
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/63467/2021-prospects-los-angeles-angels-top-10-prospects/

 

 

Okay, I appreciate this insight.  I remember having read about it but couldn’t quite recall where, which is why I qualified it with I’m not sure how valid that may be.  Appreciate your response and the links.

[Second Base]

17 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So is the consensus for now that everybody likes these moves? Is everyone more comfortable today about the pen versus yesterday?

AngelsWinology, you need to understand how fans on this site process information. 

1. @mmc Breaks the news

2. Random fans are puzzled and don't know how to feel yet. 

3. @tdawg87 Cracks a joke or says something racist, but not homophobic. 

4. Distraught among the fans. Long rants nobody reads or the typical "fire ________" post. 

5. A dozen or so posts from @Dochalo and @Inside Pitch explaining some of the thought process behind the move. 

6. @Chuckster70 Voices his support.

7. After a full night of sleep fans then are like, "Yeah......hey yeah! We're awesome. Yeah!"

8. And then there's like one or two more pages of commentary. 

------

So to summarize, it's reported, we aren't in favor, then a couple key guys like it, then all of AW is on board with it. Even if it's a terrible move. 

Right Now, we're between steps 7 and 8. 

 

[Docwaukee]

watching IP go.  BTW, is that Fletcher in the middle?

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

AngelsWinology, you need to understand how fans on this site process information. 

1. @mmc Breaks the news

2. Random fans are puzzled and don't know how to feel yet. 

3. @tdawg87 Cracks a joke or says something racist, but not homophobic. 

4. Distraught among the fans. Long rants nobody reads or the typical "fire ________" post. 

5. A dozen or so posts from @Dochalo and @Inside Pitch explaining some of the thought process behind the move. 

6. @Chuckster70 Voices his support.

7. After a full night of sleep fans then are like, "Yeah......hey yeah! We're awesome. Yeah!"

8. And then there's like one or two more pages of commentary. 

------

So to summarize, it's reported, we aren't in favor, then a couple key guys like it, then all of AW is on board with it. Even if it's a terrible move. 

Right Now, we're between steps 7 and 8. 

 

Bravo!

It doesn't reach it's zenith til someone screws up and @Angel Oraclegives him a nickname.

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Okay, I appreciate this insight.  I remember having read about it but couldn’t quite recall where, which is why I qualified it with I’m not sure how valid that may be.  Appreciate your response and the links.

Likewise, I appreciate people amicable back and forth discussion.

For whatever reasons there is a ton of mythology surrounding CRod and the nature of his injuries and the sort.  I've seen several places labeling him as oft injured, one place said he had a glass arm.  The kid has never had an arm injury -- its kind of weird and reminds me of how a lot of people tend to lump D-Mac in with Brandon Wood.  It's like people know the name and think they remember something about him being hurt and suddenly he's lumped in with the Angels TJ parade.  

I'd venture to say that pretty much nobody outside of real prospect hounds and all us asshats at AW.com have been following the Chris Rodriguez saga prior to him showing up this ST.

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Bravo!

It doesn't reach it's zenith til someone screws up and @Angel Oraclegives him a nickname.

Noe that'll ever happen. 

[Angels 1961]

I knew Chris Rodriguez was big time prospect and about the injuries. When he pitched for first time this spring I felt he had MLB stuff. I said then he needs to be in bullpen this year, That was for the simple reason at that time halo bullpen was not very good. You could not run Buttrey out there in 6th, 7th inn. With additions made in last day things have changed. Cishek, Watson and Hoyt give halos options they did not have. We will see what happens to Rodriguez once minor league season starts in May. 

[Angel Oracle]

7 hours ago, totdprods said:

If everything breaks right, the rotation could be Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval, Barria, Rodriguez, and Detmers. 

Extremely unlikely, but there’s enough minor successes in the bigs between those guys that, if they stay healthy, they could be at the very least a solid 4.25 ERA league average group between them collectively for dirt cheap. 

If that happens though, plunk down money for a top SS to add to offense and defense, trade surplus OF/SS prospects for a good arm to add to that group, and this team looks pretty good.

I’d rather re-sign both Iglesiases and Bundy and maybe either Cobb or Quintana if either pitches well.

[eligrba4ever]

Perry seems to have made a fast stop at the Dollar General clearance shelf.

Can't have too many interchangeable replacements available in the event of a BP collapse.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

AngelsWinology, you need to understand how fans on this site process information. 

1. @mmc Breaks the news

2. Random fans are puzzled and don't know how to feel yet. 

3. @tdawg87 Cracks a joke or says something racist, but not homophobic. 

4. Distraught among the fans. Long rants nobody reads or the typical "fire ________" post. 

5. A dozen or so posts from @Dochalo and @Inside Pitch explaining some of the thought process behind the move. 

6. @Chuckster70 Voices his support.

7. After a full night of sleep fans then are like, "Yeah......hey yeah! We're awesome. Yeah!"

8. And then there's like one or two more pages of commentary. 

------

So to summarize, it's reported, we aren't in favor, then a couple key guys like it, then all of AW is on board with it. Even if it's a terrible move. 

Right Now, we're between steps 7 and 8. 

 

What step is "pubes!"?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

What step is "pubes!"?

#69

 

 

 

 

I hate myself

[ten ocho recon scout]

15 minutes ago, Lou said:

#69

 

 

 

 

I hate myself

But the rest of us love you

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But the rest of us love you

You have no idea how much that means to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not much 

[Angelsfan1984]

More depth at really low price points.

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But the rest of us love you

I'm a maybe