Baseball America: “They [Angels] have no bullpen,” one opposing scout said. “It’s going to be a big issue.”

[Justin]

If I had to choose between "no bullpen," "no offense," and "no starting pitching," I would choose the first one every time. It's the easiest one to address during the season. And, as many have noted, there is always the possibility of the bullpen outperforming expectations. 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Justin said:

If I had to choose between "no bullpen," "no offense," and "no starting pitching," I would choose the first one every time. It's the easiest one to address during the season. And, as many have noted, there is always the possibility of the bullpen outperforming expectations. 

Yup. Better than hearing the Angels have "no rotation" for once.

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, TaylorBot said:

Bullpens are a crapshoot. The bullpen could suck. The bullpen could be mediocre. The bullpen could dominate.

Kinda. The problem is that most years it sucks. If the attitude is always, "it might be good so let's not do much but pick up a few random arms," then chances are it will generally suck. And that's been the approach that the Angels have taken for some years now.

That said, C Rod and Sandoval could go a long way to improving the pen. Maybe Suarez finally puts it together. Some potential there.

 

[oldguy]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

There were some very good relievers available that weren't horrendously expensive and they completely passed.  Ultimately, it came down to money.  They stuck to a specific budget like they always do, which is what it is.  The amount spent should get it done but spending more would have helped.   So you're left with super cheap options in RF and at the back of your rotation.  The good news is that we've got some depth in those areas to overcome poor play.  

In the pen we really don't.  It's a hodgepodge of one established guy and the rest isn't even a coin flip really.   In recent years past it wasn't as much of an issue because we likely weren't playoff bound even with a really good pen.  This year, with the division wide open, it stands to be a critical factor in the teams success and will likely determine whether they make the playoffs.  ie, they likely won't because of it.  

There is nothing more frustrating than a bad bullpen.  Losing games late or not giving a really good offense a chance to come back is beyond painful.  Winning games where you have a lead or coming back from couple runs down is one of the most fun things to see in a team.  

I will be astounded if this pen performs anywhere near league avg.   The fact that we're hanging our hats on Mayers who dominated for 30 innings last year yet was a dumpster fire for the rest of his time in MLB is laughable.  And he's our second best arm?  Our setup guy?  Yeesh.  

 

If the Angels are serious about making the playoffs this year then Chris Rodriguez is on the squad.  Otherwise, just another wasted "Mike Trout in his Prime" year.

If they are super-serious, Pujols is not on the squad.  We just can't afford how he hampers our lineup versatility.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, TaylorBot said:

Bullpens are a crapshoot. The bullpen could suck. The bullpen could be mediocre. The bullpen could dominate.

This.

I don’t believe anyone can evaluate a bullpen in spring training. Guys throw very few innings. Also, it doesn’t take much to swing a bullpen from being bad to good or vice versa, even within a season. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, oldguy said:

If the Angels are serious about making the playoffs this year then Chris Rodriguez is on the squad.  Otherwise, just another wasted "Mike Trout in his Prime" year.

If they are super-serious, Pujols is not on the squad.  We just can't afford how he hampers our lineup versatility.  

Why are people so sure that from watching CRod throw about 6 innings in spring training that he’s a major leaguer right now? It’s not like his stats have been that great either. Without looking I think he’s given up 4 runs in 6 innings or something. 
 

And he has zero minor league track record. 

Sure, he throws hard and has good stuff and may be good, but I think you need to see a little (or a lot) more.

I don’t think it’s impossible that he makes the team but I’d still be surprised. 

[oldguy]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Why are people so sure that from watching CRod throw about 6 innings in spring training that he’s a major leaguer right now? It’s not like his stats have been that great either. Without looking I think he’s given up 4 runs in 6 innings or something. 
 

And he has zero minor league track record. 

Sure, he throws hard and has good stuff and may be good, but I think you need to see a little (or a lot) more.

I don’t think it’s impossible that he makes the team but I’d still be surprised. 

SIX innings???  I was sure after one!

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Why are people so sure that from watching CRod throw about 6 innings in spring training that he’s a major leaguer right now? It’s not like his stats have been that great either. Without looking I think he’s given up 4 runs in 6 innings or something. 
 

And he has zero minor league track record. 

Sure, he throws hard and has good stuff and may be good, but I think you need to see a little (or a lot) more.

I don’t think it’s impossible that he makes the team but I’d still be surprised. 

I think it could go either way, but, for me there's two reasons:

1) Using him in the bullpen, at least for a short while, gives them a chance to limit his innings and keep getting competitive work while the minor league season gets settled. 

2) He's given up a few runs and nine hits, but one walk to ten strikeouts in 6.1 IP is solid, especially considering who he's ben striking out (Votto, Abreu). And he can give you multiple innings. So that could be helpful early in the year while the rotation sorts out and builds up.

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He will just blame Minasian or someone else..

IMO, Davis and Brady likely end up being used as RPs.   Both have the stuff to K people.   Brady seems to really hammer the strike zone too.

Ill be bent if they end up trading real talent for RP help when they could have addressed it via FA.

No more Clevenger for Pestano garbage trades!

[Angel Oracle]

It’s just frustrating that the bullpen hasn’t been solid since what, 2015?   Have any of the other contenders gone that long without one?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Hubs]

Angels 2002 Bullpen opening week: Troy Percival, Ben Weber, Al Levine, Lou Pote, Mark Lukasiwcz, Donne Wall, and Dennis Cook.

 

Angels 2002 World Series Pen: Troy Percival, Frankie Rodriguez, Brenden Donnelly, Scot Shields, Scott Schoeneweis , Ben Weber

Only three of these guys were on the staff on opening day. 
 

[Angel Oracle]

Is there a solid chance that CRod could be ready for MLB batters out of the pen by say July?

[Hubs]

20 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

No more Clevenger for Pestano garbage trades!

Clevinger was basically like an Aaron Hernandez (our AA guy not ex-Patriots and Jail TE) type at the point they traded him with disciplinary issues. They were trading a fringed minor league arm for a fringe major league reliever. 

[Taylor]

58 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Kinda. The problem is that most years it sucks. If the attitude is always, "it might be good so let's not do much but pick up a few random arms," then chances are it will generally suck. And that's been the approach that the Angels have taken for some years now.

That said, C Rod and Sandoval could go a long way to improving the pen. Maybe Suarez finally puts it together. Some potential there.

 

I agree with this, but the Angels did make some intentional moves in the off-season to improve the bullpen.

[Taylor]

Even closers are a crapshoot. In my fantasy baseball auction draft, I make a point to never draft closers until the very end for $1 apiece because by May, like half of the league's closers have been moved out of that role.

[Inside Pitch]

39 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Angels 2002 Bullpen opening week: Troy Percival, Ben Weber, Al Levine, Lou Pote, Mark Lukasiwcz, Donne Wall, and Dennis Cook.

 

Angels 2002 World Series Pen: Troy Percival, Frankie Rodriguez, Brenden Donnelly, Scot Shields, Scott Schoeneweis , Ben Weber

Only three of these guys were on the staff on opening day. 
 

All of them were in house solutions too.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

13 hours ago, TaylorBot said:

What is an "opposing scout"?

My alter ego. He showed up in season 4 once the ratings were dropping in a desperate attempt to keep the show on the air. 

[Angels 1961]

Hector Rondon. Carl Edwards Jr and Tommy Hunter are now free agents.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Why are people so sure that from watching CRod throw about 6 innings in spring training that he’s a major leaguer right now? It’s not like his stats have been that great either. Without looking I think he’s given up 4 runs in 6 innings or something. 
 

And he has zero minor league track record. 

Sure, he throws hard and has good stuff and may be good, but I think you need to see a little (or a lot) more.

I don’t think it’s impossible that he makes the team but I’d still be surprised. 

Ideally, they wouldn't need to take a look at CRod in the pen. However, I think a main reason why Angels fans think he'd be a good option in the pen is that the alternatives to him aren't that great.

Jesse Chavez has been awful in recent seasons and in ST, yet he has a very good chance of making the team. That's a clear sign that the bullpen options aren't great.

So yes, Rodriguez isn't a sure thing, but at least he has the stuff you can dream on. Guys like Chavez have no stuff that you can dream on.

[BTH]

This is what I was considered with all along throughout the offseason. There were a plethora of bullpen options, including cheap options, and the Angels didn't do much of anything. Ryan Tepera for $800k and Jose Alvarez for $1.5M stick out to me the most. The major league minimum is a little under $600k, so the money isn't that much of a difference for Arte.

[Slegnaac]

17 hours ago, TaylorBot said:

What is an "opposing scout"?

The opposite of a Proposing scout?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Slegnaac

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Hector Rondon. Carl Edwards Jr and Tommy Hunter are now free agents.

Arte?

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Hector Rondon. Carl Edwards Jr and Tommy Hunter are now free agents.

 

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Arte?

Nope.

Perry. 

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, totdprods said:

When you consider Maddon's preaching of culture, the addition of clubhouse-friendly vets, and the likely additions of Rojas and Rodriguez, I think you see the direction the Angels are headed becoming more clear. 

They're going to aggressively promote and push their internal options and try to build a team heavy on chemistry. 

Rojas is a prime example. He's risky. Could be a 4A player, could be a real liability defensively, could strain the team's needs at SS/CF...but if he hits and plays well, you have a really, really bug feel-good story. Hometown late-rounder debuting at 28. It doesn't show up in box scores or BBREF, but if your clubhouse is as chemistry/camaderie-based as we're being led to believe, this type of success can really galvanize a team. That seems to be their approach, or at least a big part of it. It's why encouraging Rodriguez, Ward, Detmers, Rengifo has been such a big part of this spring as well. They're pushing these guys, talking them up, putting confidence in them publicly. There seems to be a strategy to re-make the attitude of the team and give even the bit players more confidence. 

If it all coalesces and these guys gain confidence and suddenly perform to an average or above-average rate, even role-players like Ward or Suarez or Thaiss, this team could become immensely dangerous, a la 2002. 

All of this also sounds right in the Maddon-type of approach to winning.

Maddon won with talent and lost without it.  His shtick somehow wore itself out in Chicago.   Sorry if I'm not buying that there will be some sort of camaraderie magic by bringing in a bunch of good guys who aren't talented.   Not saying it doesn't matter at all and that we should bring in some douche like Osuna or Puig.  But it's not kickball on the blacktop.  

[failos]

Hopefully Lou “agrees” with this thread later this season