The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Spring Training News & Notes Thread

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

The minor league season doesn't begin until May, right? My main argument is that if he continues to dominate in ST, I'd rather see him in Anaheim in the bullpen (and/or tandem starting) in April, then in minor league camp doing what he was doing all of last summer. By the end of April, the Angels can decide on what to do with him, with the ultimate goal being as a starter. If it looks like he needs more time to work on some things, send him to AA or AAA. If he's ready, he's ready - why send him to the minors if he's ready for the show?

As for pitching out of the bullpen this year, It used to be much more common that starters served an "apprenticeship" in the bullpen for a half a year or so. Lots of great pitchers have done as much and I don't think it necessarily hurts their future as starters. 

Again, I think chances are that they play it cautious and he starts the year in minor league camp, then in AA or AAA. I have no issue with that. But I do think they should go with what makes for him, not just follow conventional wisdom because "its what you do." He may be one of those rare pitchers that is ready for the majors sooner (with fewer minor league innings logged) than most. And if we consider last summer as equivalent to minor league innings, then he has closer to 200 IP pitched in the minors.

All good points.

[Chuck]

 

[Chuck]

 

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Weren't you the guy clamoring for Adell to make the team out of ST last year?  

There is little question Rodriguez can get MLB hitters out right now but why fucking waste a year of service time and limit his development because you're too cheap to address a need?  If the Angels were to put short term gains ahead of letting this guy grow into the pitcher his stuff says he will be then they really are as stupid as everyone here constantly says they are.

Let him get his innings, if the Angels need a RP at the break then instead of wasting organizational assets, by all means let him have a go at that role -- at least the team would know they have an in house option for the rotation as they head into 2022 needing to replace four SPs.

Very simple he helps Angels win let's use him. Halo bullpen is very weak and Chris Rod improves it.

[Angels 1961]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

Very simple he helps Angels win let's use him. Halo bullpen is very weak and Chris Rod improves it.

Service time with new CBA after this year means nothing. Let's wait until Trout is 35 before we put best team on field.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Service time with new CBA after this year means nothing. Let's wait until Trout is 35 before we put best team on field.

You can’t possibly know this 

[Warfarin]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You can’t possibly know this 

Yeah, I mean right now, nobody has any idea how contract negotiations will play out.  There may or may not be a luxury tax, young players might be paid more aggressively than before but with a salary cap, etc etc.  Just impossible for anyone to know what the future of the CBA will be at this point.  

I hope we enjoy the 2021 season, because I suspect given how the owners and PA are, negotiations will drag on for a very long time.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

As for pitching out of the bullpen this year, It used to be much more common that starters served an "apprenticeship" in the bullpen for a half a year or so. Lots of great pitchers have done as much and I don't think it necessarily hurts their future as starters. 

Yes... AFTER working as starters in the minors.    The Chuck Finley's of the world are much less common.   There is nothing about Chris Rodriguez path to MLB that has been normal.

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

 But I do think they should go with what makes for him, not just follow conventional wisdom because "its what you do." 

You seem to be hedging your bets a little or I'm reading you too literally which is very likely..  But in one breath you're saying it's been common, in the next you say they shouldn't follow conventional wisdom. As I said above, nothing about Rodriguez path to MLB to date is remotely conventional.  If the goal is to do what's best for him, not sure an argument can be made that he would actually benefit from pitching irregularly out of the pen.  

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

He may be one of those rare pitchers that is ready for the majors sooner (with fewer minor league innings logged) than most. And if we consider last summer as equivalent to minor league innings, then he has closer to 200 IP pitched in the minors.

Given the Angels recent history and struggles to acquire or develop front end pitching I'm really hoping the Angels aren't wishing on Rodriguez being that rare unicorn that defies all the normal routes to success.  If there is one guy they need to try to have realize his full potential its Rodriguez -- whatever they do how ever they proceed, I hope that's their guiding vision.

Lastly -- those 200 innings in the minors are actually closer to 150, and they took place over the course of 5 years -- of which only 9.1 innings have come in live games the last three years.   The 200 innings talk is a huge huge stretch on your part and truly illustrates how very different his path has been thus far.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, totdprods said:

Tandem starter is a good idea, especially if it’s with someone who sucks (like Cobb might), has difficulty going deep in games (Sandoval tends to unravel once he gets in a jam the second time through a lineup), or someone who tends to top out around 4-5 innings like Barria. 

Or use Rodriguez as a once-through the lineup opener. 

How does this sort of usage develop him as a starter?   He's just going to go out there going full tilt for a bit then shut it down.  It's working through the order multiple times that a pitcher learns how to actually pitch to MLB hitters.

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Lets be serious, He's only faced two batter and yes it was immpressive. but its only two batters. 

And AJ, Doc, Scotty, Chuck and others will tell you we were having conversations about his being a top 50/100 talent back when he had his second back surgery and his career minor league ERA was near 5.00.  It's not what he's done that has some of us geeked, it's the knowledge that he can do things that are uncommon.   

You can't teach what his arm can do.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

It used to be more common. I just think that Chris Rodriguez should be treated as an unusual case, for a few reasons: He has few minor league innings but could be ready right now; Covid last year muddies the waters, but I think it is valid to consider his 80 IP last summer as real minor league experience. My point being, conventional wisdom only takes you so far and the Angels should treat him as a unique case.

Again, I have no problem with starting him in the minors. But I could also see why they'd want to start him in the major league bullpen and then go from there.

Yep, it was the normal.  The Orioles made it their standard operating procedure after their Baby Birds pitching staff all broke down in the late 60s early 70s.

I do believe the AAA season not starting on time may end up influencing what they do with him.  But I do hope whatever they they try to have him work through the lineup.  He's got too many tools, too many pitches not to use them or to get comfortable just using one of two as he could in a shorter role.

I think ALL of us that have been following him for as long as we have just want them to be smart.

[Inside Pitch]

55 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Service time with new CBA after this year means nothing. Let's wait until Trout is 35 before we put best team on field.

You have no idea what the new CBA will bring -- NONE.  I want the team to win for the long haul..   Making moves for one year is exactly the sort of moronic talk that had people wanting to trade Krod for the dude with 6 fingers in 2002.

Stupid teams do stuff like that.  I really hope the Angels are done being stupid.

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, I mean right now, nobody has any idea how contract negotiations will play out.  There may or may not be a luxury tax, young players might be paid more aggressively than before but with a salary cap, etc etc.  Just impossible for anyone to know what the future of the CBA will be at this point.  

I hope we enjoy the 2021 season, because I suspect given how the owners and PA are, negotiations will drag on for a very long time.

This is the part that cracks me up.   Suppose the new CBA results in players getting the right to FA sooner.   Oh boy, sure was smart to waste a year of Chris Rodriguez starting because OMG Mike Trout is getting older and some Veruca Salt type can't see the forest for the trees

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yes... AFTER working as starters in the minors.    The Chuck Finley's of the world are much less common.   There is nothing about Chris Rodriguez path to MLB that has been normal.

You seem to be hedging your bets a little or I'm reading you too literally which is very likely..  But in one breath you're saying it's been common, in the next you say they shouldn't follow conventional wisdom. As I said above, nothing about Rodriguez path to MLB to date is remotely conventional.  If the goal is to do what's best for him, not sure an argument can be made that he would actually benefit from pitching irregularly out of the pen.  

I'm not hedging my bets as much as saying that they shouldn't follow conventional wisdom just to follow conventional wisdom. They should, as you say, do what's best for him. But given his unusual career path--and the fact that he seems very close to major league ready--it isn't so clear. But I agree that he probably needs some consistent time in a minor league rotation, though, if only to get a rhythm down with his repertoire.

Watching him pitch I can imagine Maddon and company saying, "We want this guy up here as quickly as possible" - but of course balancing that for the long-term. In the end, what is good for Rodriguez is good for the team.

 

Quote

Given the Angels recent history and struggles to acquire or develop front end pitching I'm really hoping the Angels aren't wishing on Rodriguez being that rare unicorn that defies all the normal routes to success.  If there is one guy they need to try to have realize his full potential its Rodriguez -- whatever they do how ever they proceed, I hope that's their guiding vision.

Lastly -- those 200 innings in the minors are actually closer to 150, and they took place over the course of 5 years -- of which only 9.1 innings have come in live games the last three years.   The 200 innings talk is a huge huge stretch on your part and truly illustrates how very different his path has been thus far.

Yeah, it is about 150 - but about half of which came last year. So to some extent, I think we can ignore what came before and see him as a guy who pitched about 80 innings last year and go from there. This might mean they want him to pitch 120 this year, and then 150 next (or whatever).

55 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yep, it was the normal.  The Orioles made it their standard operating procedure after their Baby Birds pitching staff all broke down in the late 60s early 70s.

I do believe the AAA season not starting on time may end up influencing what they do with him.  But I do hope whatever they they try to have him work through the lineup.  He's got too many tools, too many pitches not to use them or to get comfortable just using one of two as he could in a shorter role.

I think ALL of us that have been following him for as long as we have just want them to be smart.

Yes, agreed. Again, I'm totally OK with him starting in the minors, even with the extended camp. I'm not advocating for him spending the year in the pen. I'm just entertaining possibilities, and positing that there's an argument for it, even if, in the end, it is better to send him down to start.

I do think the most likely scenario, which I'm totally fine with, is that he starts in minor league camp, then AA, then AAA and is called up in the second half and/or when someone gets injured. I do think he'll start some games in Anaheim this year, but probably not until August or September.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if come June, after he's gotten some camp starts in April and five or so AA/AAA starts in May, and if one of the major league guys goes down or struggles, that the Angels would call him up. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[tdawg87]

I still can't figure out if @Inside Pitch agrees with me. I'm having a crisis.

[rafibomb]

Quintana was sitting 92 and reached 94 today. Very encouraging.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

You have no idea what the new CBA will bring -- NONE.  I want the team to win for the long haul..   Making moves for one year is exactly the sort of moronic talk that had people wanting to trade Krod for the dude with 6 fingers in 2002.

Stupid teams do stuff like that.  I really hope the Angels are done being stupid.

What is stupid is not to have your best players on the field. 5 years of losing and putting a talent like C Rod in minors is a waste. This halo bullpen is weak and if Rodriguez can make a big difference I put him in bullpen. Just have another so so season. 

[tdawg87]

I just can't with this guy.

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I still can't figure out if @Inside Pitch agrees with me. I'm having a crisis.

I agree.

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I just can't with this guy.

I agree again.

[ten ocho recon scout]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I agree.

..... like you really do, or you really @Lou?

[BTH]

15 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Interesting bit from Fangraphs earlier today:   Stanky: Wondering when you’re going to re-evaluate Chris Rodriguez, based upon the very positive words from camp last year–including health–and the nasty stuff we’ve seen in spring so far.

12:10

Eric A Longenhagen: I think you still need to factor the injury history into how you line him up. His delivery is still so violent. But he’s got three bat-missing pitches. I hope then ‘pen him and put him in the big leagues immediately, for a number of reasons.

I agree with Eric.

Pitchers are so volatile, so use them when they're ready. Rodriguez's stuff looked like it can play at the majors right now. Use him out of the bullpen right now and let him build up innings as a reliever. Then, next year, you can stretch him back out to multiple innings with a solid workload under his belt. Ala Chris Sale and what the White Sox are doing with Crochett right now.

 

Also, I could care less about service time. If Rodriguez is so good 6 years from now that you're concerned about losing him in free agency, that's a good thing, as it means you've developed a good pitcher.

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

..... like you really do, or you really @Lou?

I'm a maybe

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm a maybe

Who pitches 6,7 and 8 inn this year? Faria has looked good so far. I think halos need to find someone to help in pen.

[Vlad27Trout27]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

And AJ, Doc, Scotty, Chuck and others will tell you we were having conversations about his being a top 50/100 talent back when he had his second back surgery and his career minor league ERA was near 5.00.  It's not what he's done that has some of us geeked, it's the knowledge that he can do things that are uncommon.   

You can't teach what his arm can do.

Trust me, I know. I'm also have been high on C-Rod since his 2nd year, before the injuries hit him.