Angels fire Mickey Callaway, placed on MLB Ineligible List through 2022

[Stradler]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

What is a cancel culture warrior?

you

[eligrba]

6 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

CALLAWAY SUSPENDED.

Angels will cooperate with MLB investigation. Three different teams: Cleveland, Mets and Angels.

Career change anticipated.

Expected.  Callaway should simply resign and try to save some professional dignity.  Regardless of the investigative outcome, he can at least control his narrative by showing a commitment to the success of an organization but not being a distraction.

[Second Base]

21 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Expected.  Callaway should simply resign and try to save some professional dignity.  Regardless of the investigative outcome, he can at least control his narrative by showing a commitment to the success of an organization but not being a distraction.

See now I disagree, respectfully. The investigation isn't complete yet, but what do we know he's guilty of at this point? Cheating on his wife, that's about it. 

Immoral as that is, it isn't grounds for termination. There's still a scenario where the Angels, the women reporting this, and Callaway can all come out in a positive manner. 

First of all, the women held onto this information for years and never reported it to their bosses or anyone, but then jump in as soon as someone wants to report it. Is similar to the #metoo movement, which was both good and bad, good in that it brought awareness to an issue, bad in which there are documented cases where it was abused and used as a smear campaign against someone the left didn't like.

Whatever the case is here, if the women coming forward offer the necessary proof and can explain why they never reported it, clearly there's an existent problem in the way Mickey is doing things. And that must change. 

There may or might not be grounds for termination, but there's certainly reason for Mickey to attend counseling and be taught that the old way of doing things, isn't appropriate anymore, because culture has shifted, regardless of the meaning behind those actions on his part. He must change.

If that's the case, Callaway undergoes counseling, the Angels follow an investigation and keep their pitching coach and MLB creates an anonymous reporting service which helps create another avenue for women to report cases of sexual harassment without fear of blow back from any direction. 

Sexual harassment is an extremely big deal right now, and society in general had taken steps to solving that problem. These women need to know that at any point, they could've gone to their bosses, they could've gone to the teams, they could've taken it to social media, they could've done anything. The only thing they shouldn't do is simply tolerate it and not come forward until years after the fact, in the mean time Mickey kept doing what he was doing.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Second Base

[bruin5]

Y

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

See now I disagree, respectfully. The investigation isn't complete yet, but what do we know he's guilty of at this point? Cheating on his wife, that's about it. 

Immoral as that is, it isn't grounds for termination. There's still a scenario where the Angels, the women reporting this, and Callaway can all come out in a positive manner. 

First of all, the women held onto this information for years and never reported it to their bosses or anyone, but then jump in as soon as someone wants to report it. Is similar to the #metoo movement, which was both good and bad, good in that it brought awareness to an issue, bad in which there are documented cases where it was abused and used as a smear campaign against someone the left didn't like.

Whatever the case is here, if the women coming forward offer the necessary proof and can explain why they never reported it, clearly there's an existent problem in the way Mickey is doing things. And that must change. 

There may or might not be grounds for termination, but there's certainly reason for Mickey to attend counseling and be taught that the old way of doing things, isn't appropriate anymore, because culture has shifted, regardless of the meaning behind those actions on his part. He must change.

If that's the case, Callaway undergoes counseling, the Angels follow an investigation and keep their pitching coach and MLB creates an anonymous reporting service which helps create another avenue for women to report cases of sexual harassment without fear of blow back from any direction. 

Sexual harassment is an extremely big deal right now, and society in general had taken steps to solving that problem. These women need to know that at any point, they could've gone to their bosses, they could've gone to the teams, they could've taken it to social media, they could've done anything. The only thing they shouldn't do is simply tolerate it and not come forward until years after the fact, in the mean time Mickey kept doing what he was doing.

 

 

You can’t be serious with this. If your argument is “they should have come forward when it happened” then you’ve already lost because that’s the essential point of harassment - one person in power, the other afraid of the consequences of crossing that person. 

Sorry, I’ve seen enough. Rosenthal basically did the investigation. The woman have texts, it’s been corroborated by others including real time conversations with their friends.  It’s likely the only thing MLB finds are more women who come forward. 

Calloway is a ass who needs to be gone.  

 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, bruin5 said:

 

You can’t be serious with this. If your argument is “they should have come forward when it happened” then you’ve already lost because that’s the essential point of harassment - one person in power, the other afraid of the consequences of crossing that person. 

 

 

Agree with this point.

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, bruin5 said:

Y

You can’t be serious with this. If your argument is “they should have come forward when it happened” then you’ve already lost because that’s the essential point of harassment - one person in power, the other afraid of the consequences of crossing that person. 

Sorry, I’ve seen enough. Rosenthal basically did the investigation. The woman have texts, it’s been corroborated by others including real time conversations with their friends.  It’s likely the only thing MLB finds are more women who come forward. 

Calloway is a ass who needs to be gone.  

 

Without investigation? 

[eligrba]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

See now I disagree. The investigation isn't complete yet, but what do we know he's guilty of at this point? Cheating on his wife, that's about it. 

Immoral as that is, it isn't grounds for termination. There's still a scenario where the Angels, the women reporting this, and Callaway can all come out in a positive manner. 

First of all, the women held onto this information for years and never reported it to their bosses or anyone, but then jump in as soon as someone wants to report it. Is similar to the #metoo movement, which was both good and bad, good in that it brought awareness to an issue, bad in which there are documented cases where it was abused and used as a smear campaign against someone the left didn't like.

Whatever the case is here, if the women coming forward offer the necessary proof and can explain why they never reported it, clearly there's an existent problem in the way Mickey is doing things. And that must change. 

There may or might not be grounds for termination, but there's certainly reason for Mickey to attend counseling and be taught that the old way of doing things, isn't appropriate anymore, because culture has shifted, regardless of the meaning behind those actions on his part. He must change.

If that's the case, Callaway undergoes counseling, the Angels follow an investigation and keep their pitching coach and MLB creates a anonymous reporting service which helps create another avenue for women to report cases of sexual harassment without great of blow back from any direction. 

Sexual harassment is an extremely big deal right now, and society in general had taken steps to solving that problem. These women need to know that at any point, they could've gone to their bosses, they could've gone to the teams, they could've taken it to social media, they could've done anything. 

 

 

I have no idea whether Callaway is guilty or innocent but I do know that this issue can be a major distraction for a team that doesn't need any additional distractions.  I agree with your recommendations at the end of your post.  They make sense assuming that the Angels did not know of the reported incidents.  The fact that Callaway is reportedly denying any wrongdoing puts the Angels into a squeeze with few options.

Big picture, I am always amazed that these things continue to happen.

[bruin5]

Just now, Second Base said:

Without investigation? 

There will be an investigation.  Any enterprise wanting to avoid litigation will investigate.  My sense is that what Rosenthal found will likely be confirmed by MLB.  

[Second Base]

Just now, eligrba said:

I have no idea whether Callaway is guilty or innocent but I do know that this issue can be a major distraction for a team that doesn't need any additional distractions.  I agree with your recommendations at the end of your post.  They make sense assuming that the Angels did not know of the reported incidents.  The fact that Callaway is reportedly denying any wrongdoing puts the Angels into a squeeze with few options.

Big picture, I am always amazed that these things continue to happen.

Oh absolutely. It confounds me as well. 

[jsnpritchett]

15 minutes ago, Second Base said:

See now I disagree, respectfully. The investigation isn't complete yet, but what do we know he's guilty of at this point? Cheating on his wife, that's about it. 

Immoral as that is, it isn't grounds for termination. There's still a scenario where the Angels, the women reporting this, and Callaway can all come out in a positive manner. 

First of all, the women held onto this information for years and never reported it to their bosses or anyone, but then jump in as soon as someone wants to report it. Is similar to the #metoo movement, which was both good and bad, good in that it brought awareness to an issue, bad in which there are documented cases where it was abused and used as a smear campaign against someone the left didn't like.

Whatever the case is here, if the women coming forward offer the necessary proof and can explain why they never reported it, clearly there's an existent problem in the way Mickey is doing things. And that must change. 

There may or might not be grounds for termination, but there's certainly reason for Mickey to attend counseling and be taught that the old way of doing things, isn't appropriate anymore, because culture has shifted, regardless of the meaning behind those actions on his part. He must change.

If that's the case, Callaway undergoes counseling, the Angels follow an investigation and keep their pitching coach and MLB creates an anonymous reporting service which helps create another avenue for women to report cases of sexual harassment without fear of blow back from any direction. 

Sexual harassment is an extremely big deal right now, and society in general had taken steps to solving that problem. These women need to know that at any point, they could've gone to their bosses, they could've gone to the teams, they could've taken it to social media, they could've done anything. The only thing they shouldn't do is simply tolerate it and not come forward until years after the fact, in the mean time Mickey kept doing what he was doing.

 

 

I'm curious what those cases are.  Not doubting you: genuinely asking what the cases were that you're alluding to.

Also, agree with the other post that suggested that your last paragraph might be off-target. For years, women (and some men) have felt like they COULDN'T go to their bosses, co-workers, etc. with accusations like this precisely because they were worried about the repercussions. So framing it as what they "could've done" or what they "shouldn't do" is missing one of the major problems that led to the pervasiveness of stuff like this. 

[failos]

[Second Base]

Just now, bruin5 said:

There will be an investigation.  Any enterprise wanting to avoid litigation will investigate.  My sense is that what Rosenthal found will likely be confirmed by MLB.  

Maybe. I'm not going to trust the media in this case, for many reasons but on principle alone they shouldn't be trusted on any legal case. But if MLB's investigation comes up with the same dirt, and it's clear he's broken rules or less, then yes, he must be terminated. 

But unless what he's done is formally investigated, and is a terminable offense, he shouldn't be fired, not until that is done. Or simply put, he deserves his day in court and the punishment, whether counseling or being fired, can be better decided there. 

 

 

[T.G.]

This thread is becoming less entertaining really fast.

[bruin5]

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Maybe. I'm not going to trust the media in this case, for many reasons but on principle alone they shouldn't be trusted on any legal case. But if MLB's investigation comes up with the same dirt, and it's clear he's broken rules or less, then yes, he must be terminated. 

But unless what he's done is formally investigated, and is a terminable offense, he shouldn't be fired, not until that is done. Or simply put, he deserves his day in court and the punishment, whether counseling or being fired, can be better decided there. 

 

 

He will get a fair investigation because there is always the threat of litigation.  They did the right thing by putting him on suspension instead of firing.   

MLB, once this is done, has to look at their culture and what can be put in place to stop this from happening. 

[jsnpritchett]

Also, @Second Base (and really, everyone), I'd urge you to read this Twitter thread from Chelsea Janes, a baseball reporter for the Washington Post, in which she discusses her own encounters that are similar to the Porter/Callaway situations.  She also addresses how difficult it can be to come forward with accusations, even if you feel guilt that not doing so could cause more people to be harmed.  It's a good read for us all.

 

[Chuck]

@Stradler you're going to need to cool it. 

Just take this as a warning if you'd like to remain a member and engage in civil discussion here. 

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Stradler you're going to need to cool it. 

Just take this as a warning if you'd like to remain a member and engage in civil discussion here. 

Chuck has spoken...

[Second Base]

18 minutes ago, bruin5 said:

He will get a fair investigation because there is always the threat of litigation.  They did the right thing by putting him on suspension instead of firing.   

MLB, once this is done, has to look at their culture and what can be put in place to stop this from happening. 

Agreed. I actually hope this can be resolved without him being fired, but am not anticipating that happening. MLB took the correct first step in creating the anonymous reporting service. 

I actually don't think reporters should even be allowed in the clubhouse in the first place, male or female. Maybe narrow three interactions to simply post game press conferences and hopefully get rid of this inside scoop culture that had elevated guys like Jon Heyman. 

[34red4]

34 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Also, @Second Base (and really, everyone), I'd urge you to read this Twitter thread from Chelsea Janes, a baseball reporter for the Washington Post, in which she discusses her own encounters that are similar to the Porter/Callaway situations.  She also addresses how difficult it can be to come forward with accusations, even if you feel guilt that not doing so could cause more people to be harmed.  It's a good read for us all.

 

“In a baseball clubhouse without a story like this. My first day in an MLB clubhouse as a 20-year-old intern, a quad-A outfielder who will remain nameless had a coach pass me a piece of paper with his number on it.”

I don’t think what she is stating her personal encounter was is similar to what Porter did and the allegations against Callaway.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Jinzu said:

“In a baseball clubhouse without a story like this. My first day in an MLB clubhouse as a 20-year-old intern, a quad-A outfielder who will remain nameless had a coach pass me a piece of paper with his number on it.”

I don’t think what she is stating her personal encounter was is similar to what Porter did and the allegations against Callaway.

I think she's simply saying that's what occurred on her FIRST day, not that that's the only time she felt someone did something inappropriate.  The complete sentence that's cut off in the portion you quoted is, "Knew I should take some time (and more than a few deep breaths) before trying to offer any thoughts on the Porter/Callaway situation, but it hit me that it’s fitting that a story like that broke on the day I jumped back into baseball because I haven’t known a day in a baseball clubhouse without a story like this."

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, ScottT said:

I have not read anything that suggests these women are or will be scarred for life.  It's not like @tdawg87 sent topless photos.  

It shouldn't happen, but geezuz...  Everything is so overblown these days.  One fuckwad does something bad and it's an institutional problem.   It's more than one fuckwad, but damn.  It's not everyone.  It's not most.

I just read that Chelsea Janes twitter thread.  Sucks.

One reply said he was embarassed for his gender.  What the fuck.  Some people seem to think cis white males are the devil and they need to apologize for the entire group.

I don't even feel comfortable having discussions like this online because people are crazy. And it's not like I post controversial things.

Well, there were all of those fire Butcher rants.   

[tdawg87]

15 minutes ago, ScottT said:

I have not read anything that suggests these women are or will be scarred for life.  It's not like @tdawg87 sent topless photos.

Hilarious.

[34red4]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think she's simply saying that's what occurred on her FIRST day, not that that's the only time she felt someone did something inappropriate.  The complete sentence that's cut off in the portion you quoted is, "Knew I should take some time (and more than a few deep breaths) before trying to offer any thoughts on the Porter/Callaway situation, but it hit me that it’s fitting that a story like that broke on the day I jumped back into baseball because I haven’t known a day in a baseball clubhouse without a story like this."

There are plenty of instances of misconduct by men in all professions. All of those should be punished.

A man trying to give her his number because he found her attractive is not one of them.

Would you defend a man’s claim of feeling like a victim and that “it was somehow his fault” because a woman gave him her number on his first day of work?

[jsnpritchett]

8 minutes ago, Jinzu said:

There are plenty of instances of misconduct by men in all professions. All of those should be punished.

A man trying to give her his number because he found her attractive is not one of them.

Would you defend a man’s claim of feeling like a victim and that “it was somehow his fault” because a woman gave him her number on his first day of work?

Again, I'm not focusing too much on that specific example in the thread.  That said, she's using that as the example of how she was "introduced" to the clubhouse setting.  I think her point in using that as an example is simply that on the very first day she was doing something "professional" (I count internships as professional), someone tried to turn it into a personal situation without any indication from her that that was acceptable at the time.  Regardless of gender, if you're going into a situation expecting to work and interact with people on a professional basis and some random person who you've never interacted with sends you their number, yeah, I could imagine that a lot of people would find that to be awkward.

The TL:DR version: Don't assume that baseball lockerrooms are pick-up joints.

Edited February 3, 2021 by jsnpritchett

[AngelsLakersFan]

We as a society seem to have lost the ability to empathize with others.