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IGNORED

Say we got Cole last year and no Rendon.


halonatic13

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1 minute ago, Bronson said:

Realmuto gets overhyped because he’s the best catcher in probably the worst era ever for catchers in general. The position is so weak right now. If he played in the late 90’s to early 2000’s he would barely crack the top 10. 

So he gets overhyped because he is the best catcher in baseball when most catchers are terrible?

OK.

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18 minutes ago, Bronson said:

I’ll still take Rendon/Bauer over that. I find Relamuto a little overrated and Rendon gives us that steady bat in the middle of the order protecting Trout. Because at the end of the day Realmuto isn’t even in the same league hitting wise to Rendon. 

Additionally, I think they'll get more value over the known and probable contract terms for Bauer (5-6?) and Rendon (7) than for Cole (9) and Realmuto (5?), especially with the elevated chance that a 30-35 y.o. catcher will decline in performance.

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44 minutes ago, Bronson said:

Yes. He’s a decent catcher but he gets hyped up more because the catching position is so bad right now.

I guess you miss the obvious point.  The objective is to win games.  If you are a catcher that is far better than the rest of the league, then you represent a way for a team to have a distinct advantage over the opponent.

Your argument that he is getting "hyped" because he is so much better than the others in the catching position right now. . .is exactly why he is worth what they are going to pay him.

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34 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I guess you miss the obvious point.  The objective is to win games.  If you are a catcher that is far better than the rest of the league, then you represent a way for a team to have a distinct advantage over the opponent.

Your argument that he is getting "hyped" because he is so much better than the others in the catching position right now. . .is exactly why he is worth what they are going to pay him.

I wouldn’t even say he’s much better. That’s how bad the catching position is right now. He just happens to be the best catcher in a bunch of mediocrity.
 

And for your first point, I strongly disagree. Having the best of any player from any position gives you a distinct advantage over the rest of the league. For instance I’d rather have the best RF or 1B in baseball over the best catcher because the best catcher is just a good player while the best first baseman or Right fielder is an exceptional player. 
 

And to my point, the fact Realmuto is the best catcher in a weak position, he’s gonna ask for way more money then he deserves. Which is why I’d rather have Bauer and Rendon over Realmuto and Cole. Rendon is significantly better then Realmuto in every way and if Bauer continues his dominance that he showed last season, he isn’t far off from Cole and will come cheaper.

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11 minutes ago, Bronson said:

For instance I’d rather have the best RF or 1B in baseball over the best catcher because the best catcher is just a good player while the best first baseman or Right fielder is an exceptional player. 

You totally don’t get it.  I would rather have the #1 catcher and the #3 RF over having the #1 RF and the #3 catcher.

Hey just wondering which QB you took with the #1 overall pick in your fantasy football league?

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7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You totally don’t get it.  I would rather have the #1 catcher and the #3 RF over having the #1 RF and the #3 catcher.

Hey just wondering which QB you took with the #1 overall pick in your fantasy football league?

I’d rather have the # 1 RF and the #1 1st Baseman. 
 

The catching position is so weak right now. Why overpay?

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44 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

I think we should go back to the Angels not signing Adrian Beltre.

 

44 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

I think we should go back to the Angels not signing Adrian Beltre.

 

43 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

I think we should go back to the Angels not signing Adrian Beltre.

Are you sure?  I mean... really sure.  Like 100% certain?

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6 minutes ago, Bronson said:

I’d rather have the # 1 RF and the #1 1st Baseman. 
 

The catching position is so weak right now. Why overpay?

I don't know what you mean by overpaying.  You pay for players that help you win (or that are "stars" that help you market your team to increase revenue).  Realmuto does both.

Realmuto is a pretty steady 4.5 WAR player (15.1 WAR from 2017-2019).  Trout was 24.9 WAR for that period.  The next best Angel was Simmons at 11.9 WAR for that period.

You get it or you don't.

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30 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don't know what you mean by overpaying.  You pay for players that help you win (or that are "stars" that help you market your team to increase revenue).  Realmuto does both.

Realmuto is a pretty steady 4.5 WAR player (15.1 WAR from 2017-2019).  Trout was 24.9 WAR for that period.  The next best Angel was Simmons at 11.9 WAR for that period.

You get it or you don't.

He’s not worth a 9 figure contract is all I’m saying. I’d much rather spend that on a different player.

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The OP's question is tougher. If we get Bauer, I'm content with what we got, even though I'm bummed to lose Simba.

OTOH, if it's Cole and Realmuto vs. Rendon and Bauer? I'm Team Rendon and Bauer all day, every day. Don't even have to think twice on that one. 

Cole is probably a safer and superior option at SP, but Rendon is way safer at 3B than Realmuto is at catcher. Rendon was actually a sweet deal, whereas Realmuto is a bad contract waiting to explode on whoever takes him. 

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1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I guess you miss the obvious point.  The objective is to win games.  If you are a catcher that is far better than the rest of the league, then you represent a way for a team to have a distinct advantage over the opponent.

Your argument that he is getting "hyped" because he is so much better than the others in the catching position right now. . .is exactly why he is worth what they are going to pay him.

And it does point to a question.   What has changed to make catching such an elusive commodity today?

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3 hours ago, Bronson said:

Realmuto gets overhyped because he’s the best catcher in probably the worst era ever for catchers in general. The position is so weak right now. If he played in the late 90’s to early 2000’s he would barely crack the top 10. 

In that era, hed be realPuto

 

I actually want to sign him just so if he sucks, we can use that name.

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Someone said that Realmuto would be barely a top 10 catcher about 20 years ago, so I thought I’d look into it. He was on pace for his fourth 4+ WAR season in 2020, at age 29. But given the shortened season, let’s look for comparable players through age 28. From 1990-2019 there were 68 catcher seasons of 4+ WAR in any number of at-bats by players age 28 or younger. Here they are:

6 McCann

5 Pudge, Posey

4 Piazza, Mauer, Lucroy, Molina

3 Kendall, Montero, Martin, Grandal, Realmuto 

2 Hundley, Johnson, Martinez, Wieters, Gomes

1 Hoiles, Daulton, Wilkins, Posada, Lieberthal, Soto, Mesoraco, Zunino, Avila, Ramos, Sanchez

Obviously this isn’t a perfect method, but it gives us a rough sense of things. I’m using Fangraphs, which probably overvalued guys like McCann and Lucroy, but who am I to say. Anyhow, one thing to note is that catchers are highly volatile in terms of decline. Most of these guys peter off quite early, some transition to other positions with varying degrees of success, and only a few remain productive catchers deep into their 30s (Pudge, Molina, and Posada come to mind).

The problem with Realmuto is that while he’s a good hitter, he’s not a great one—and not even a very good one (109 career wRC+), so a lot of his value comes from the position he plays, and while good, he’s no Yadier.

So I’d be very hesitant to give him a six-figure contract. He might continue to be a 4-5 WAR player for half a decade, but he very well could have only another year or two of his prime and then turn into a very expensive average plus 1B/DH—paying $25M for the type of guy who can be found on the free agent market for $8M or even in the minors. That’s the last thing the Angels need, and not worth the risk.

Edited by Angelsjunky
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2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Someone said that Realmuto would be barely a top 10 catcher about 20 years ago, so I thought I’d look into it. He was on pace for his fourth 4+ WAR season in 2020, at age 29. But given the shortened season, let’s look for comparable players through age 28. From 1990-2019 there were 68 catcher seasons of 4+ WAR in any number of at-bats by players age 28 or younger. Here they are:

6 McCann

5 Pudge, Posey

4 Piazza, Mauer, Lucroy, Molina

3 Kendall, Montero, Martin, Grandal, Realmuto 

2 Hundley, Johnson, Martinez, Wieters, Gomes

1 Hoiles, Daulton, Wilkins, Posada, Lieberthal, Soto, Mesoraco, Zunino, Avila, Ramos, Sanchez

Obviously this isn’t a perfect method, but it gives us a rough sense of things. I’m using Fangraphs, which probably overvalued guys like McCann and Lucroy, but who am I to say. Anyhow, one thing to note is that catchers are highly volatile in terms of decline. Most of these guys peter off quite early, some transition to other positions with varying degrees of success, and only a few remain productive catchers deep into their 30s (Pudge, Molina, and Posada come to mind).

The problem with Realmuto is that while he’s a good hitter, he’s not a great one—and not even a very good one (109 career wRC+), so a lot of his value comes from the position he plays, and while good, he’s no Yadier.

So I’d be very hesitant to give him a six-figure contract. He might continue to be a 4-5 WAR player for half a decade, but he very could well have only another year or two of his prime and then turn into a very expensive average plus 1B/DH.

the guy listed next to him was the steal of the last off season.  

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