Spend the Remaining Money

[eligrba]

I like what Minasian has done.  I would trust him and his crew to make the best decision with the remaining money to improve the team and still have options available during the season.

I think he is going to be a good GM for the Angels.....and I'm not afraid of a Lou bump

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....maybe a little afraid.

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

If he learned anything in Atlanta, look for short term deals. Tanaka for 1 year 15M, Hand for 7M, and Joc for 8M. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

We're wasting uptons prime years if we dont spend.

Also. Maybe we need to whisper in artes ear that it would be nice to pujols in the playoffs at least 2 of the 10 years he was here... cough....

[eligrba]

17 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We're wasting uptons prime years if we dont spend.

Also. Maybe we need to whisper in artes ear that it would be nice to pujols in the playoffs at least 2 of the 10 years he was here... cough....

Keep in mind, 9 of Albert's 10 years have already been wasted.....the injustice, where's the outrage?

[Warfarin]

15 hours ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

If he learned anything in Atlanta, look for short term deals. Tanaka for 1 year 15M, Hand for 7M, and Joc for 8M. 

This is a good point.

If we look at Atlanta's pattern, and if we look at his moves so far as an Angels GM, the trend is rather clear - largely, avoid long-term contracts for the sake of maintaining payroll flexibility.

BUT, that said, Arte does spend quite a bit more than Atlanta's ownership group.  We do already have a lot of money tied up to multiple players (Trout, Rendon), but with Pujols' deal expiring after this year and Upton the year after, I do think we have room for one more significant contract.

Perhaps Minasian has been signing a bunch of one year deals (or acquiring players who are due to be free agents), with the idea that he can take one shot at a long-term deal like Bauer.

I still don't think Bauer is likely, because I think Arte aims to be below the luxury tax limit, but if he is willing to make a one year exception, then we could very well see Bauer.  And the fact that Minasian has rather deftly avoided signing guys to multi-year deals means that next year's payroll should be manageable.

If we sign Bauer, then this is the 2021 rotation:   Bauer, Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Ohtani.  Barria, Sandoval, and Suarez are all options as well, which means we are effectively 9 SPs "deep," so to speak.

In 2022, we have 3 free agents (Bundy, Heaney, Quintana).  If we have signed Bauer, the odds of re-signing any of those 3 to a long-term deal goes down, but perhaps we do re-sign one (Bundy?).  In 2022, we then have:  Bauer, Bundy, Canning, Ohtani, and ..?  At this point, it'll be up to Minasian's team to help facilitate our youth development.  Hopefully, by 2022, we can count on Sandoval, Suarez, and possibly Detmers to take a step up and fill up key spots in the rotation.  CRod is an option too, but given his history of injuries, I think he needs to first show he can handle a full minor league season before we can hope that he can fill a rotation spot.

[Pancake Bear]

Yes, Minasian came from Atlanta where they excelled at one year deals. But do you seriously want him to remake the entire rotation next season? Because that is exactly what some of you are suggesting. 

We have Canning, Ohtani - who may or may be reliable as a pitcher going forward - and a bunch of kids. 

Bundy, Heaney, and Quintana are all FA after the season. (Also, on the rest of the roster: SS Iglesias, C Suzuki, RP Iglesias). And some of you are suggesting we just add several more one year deals. That is absurdly short sighted. 

[T.G.]

11 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Yes, Minasian came from Atlanta where they excelled at one year deals. But do you seriously want him to remake the entire rotation next season? Because that is exactly what some of you are suggesting. 

We have Canning, Ohtani - who may or may be reliable as a pitcher going forward - and a bunch of kids. 

Bundy, Heaney, and Quintana are all FA after the season. (Also, on the rest of the roster: SS Iglesias, C Suzuki, RP Iglesias). And some of you are suggesting we just add several more one year deals. That is absurdly short sighted. 

I don't think most fans know WHAT they want.  They just grab on to anything they've seen that looks remotely successful. It's all a guessing game and fans will latch on to any tidbit of history to try and make a case for just about anything.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

Yes, Minasian came from Atlanta where they excelled at one year deals. But do you seriously want him to remake the entire rotation next season? Because that is exactly what some of you are suggesting. 

We have Canning, Ohtani - who may or may be reliable as a pitcher going forward - and a bunch of kids. 

Bundy, Heaney, and Quintana are all FA after the season. (Also, on the rest of the roster: SS Iglesias, C Suzuki, RP Iglesias). And some of you are suggesting we just add several more one year deals. That is absurdly short sighted. 

Barria plus ton of free agent pitchers next year. Can extend Bundy plus once we sign Odorizzi for a 3 or 4 year deal. Plus trades could be coming. The sky is not falling.

[Angels 1961]

8 hours ago, Warfarin said:

This is a good point.

If we look at Atlanta's pattern, and if we look at his moves so far as an Angels GM, the trend is rather clear - largely, avoid long-term contracts for the sake of maintaining payroll flexibility.

BUT, that said, Arte does spend quite a bit more than Atlanta's ownership group.  We do already have a lot of money tied up to multiple players (Trout, Rendon), but with Pujols' deal expiring after this year and Upton the year after, I do think we have room for one more significant contract.

Perhaps Minasian has been signing a bunch of one year deals (or acquiring players who are due to be free agents), with the idea that he can take one shot at a long-term deal like Bauer.

I still don't think Bauer is likely, because I think Arte aims to be below the luxury tax limit, but if he is willing to make a one year exception, then we could very well see Bauer.  And the fact that Minasian has rather deftly avoided signing guys to multi-year deals means that next year's payroll should be manageable.

If we sign Bauer, then this is the 2021 rotation:   Bauer, Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Ohtani.  Barria, Sandoval, and Suarez are all options as well, which means we are effectively 9 SPs "deep," so to speak.

In 2022, we have 3 free agents (Bundy, Heaney, Quintana).  If we have signed Bauer, the odds of re-signing any of those 3 to a long-term deal goes down, but perhaps we do re-sign one (Bundy?).  In 2022, we then have:  Bauer, Bundy, Canning, Ohtani, and ..?  At this point, it'll be up to Minasian's team to help facilitate our youth development.  Hopefully, by 2022, we can count on Sandoval, Suarez, and possibly Detmers to take a step up and fill up key spots in the rotation.  CRod is an option too, but given his history of injuries, I think he needs to first show he can handle a full minor league season before we can hope that he can fill a rotation spot.

That is why you sign Odorizzi who would cheaper and less years. That would leave you with more options in the future.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

That is why you sign Odorizzi who would cheaper and less years. That would leave you with more options in the future.

I'd rather maintain the flexibility by not signing a lesser player and committing multiple years.  Or get the better player in Bauer and not even need to have options.  To me, Odorizzi is the worst of both.  

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I'd rather maintain the flexibility by not signing a lesser player and committing multiple years.  Or get the better player in Bauer and not even need to have options.  To me, Odorizzi is the worst of both.  

Long term contracts end up being a mistake on back end. Bauer to me would be a bad fit in clubhouse. You will need more than Bauer to compete this year and in future.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Long term contracts end up being a mistake on back end. Bauer to me would be a bad fit in clubhouse. You will need more than Bauer to compete this year and in future.

then why add Odorizzi and commit three years from him?  If they need more than Bauer, then they definitely need more than Odorizzi.  And by more, does some RF and pen help plus Odorizzi really move the needle more than Bauer alone? 

you don't know jack about whether he fits in the clubhouse.  nor do I.  If they sign him then I presume someone like Minasian has a much better understanding of that than any of us.   

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

then why add Odorizzi and commit three years from him?  If they need more than Bauer, then they definitely need more than Odorizzi.  And by more, does some RF and pen help plus Odorizzi really move the needle more than Bauer alone? 

you don't know jack about whether he fits in the clubhouse.  nor do I.  If they sign him then I presume someone like Minasian has a much better understanding of that than any of us.   

3 years better then 5 or 6 plus money you save yes can go to pen. I would much rather have Odorizzi, Hand and Petit. That is just my opinion. It is a fact Bauer and Callaway did not see eye to eye on pitching. If halos have 24 to 30 million to spend I just would not put in 1 basket. 

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

3 years better then 5 or 6 plus money you save yes can go to pen. I would much rather have Odorizzi, Hand and Petit. That is just my opinion. It is a fact Bauer and Callaway did not see eye to eye on pitching. If halos have 24 to 30 million to spend I just would not put in 1 basket. 

getting a front of the rotation starter when you don't have one kinda means you have to if that's the direction you're going to go.  I agree, you can't be wrong, but if the window is the next three years you can always add a guy like Hand or Petit via trade or next year and not be stuck with a mediocre starter for three years at FA market rates.  

My guess is the Callaway is a professional.  Again, if Minasian, who clearly has stated that the clubhouse culture matters to him, signs Bauer, then I'm not worried about it.  

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

It is a fact Bauer and Callaway did not see eye to eye on pitching. 

People seriously need to quit making more of this than actually exists. 

You want a fact? Here's one: The Angels would have zero interest if Callaway made it clear they couldn't work together. If they've shown interest, the "conflict" is a nothing burger. 

[Angels 1961]

58 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

getting a front of the rotation starter when you don't have one kinda means you have to if that's the direction you're going to go.  I agree, you can't be wrong, but if the window is the next three years you can always add a guy like Hand or Petit via trade or next year and not be stuck with a mediocre starter for three years at FA market rates.  

My guess is the Callaway is a professional.  Again, if Minasian, who clearly has stated that the clubhouse culture matters to him, signs Bauer, then I'm not worried about it.  

Bauer ERA under 4 only twice in his career, once last year in a short season. Odorizzi an all star in 2019. I'm just not giving over 100 mill to someone like Bauer too many red flags for me. Odorizzi 3 years 39 mill.

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Bauer ERA under 4 only twice in his career, once last year in a short season. Odorizzi an all star in 2019. I'm just not giving over 100 mill to someone like Bauer too many red flags for me. Odorizzi 3 years 39 mill.

Odorizzi era over 4 over the past 4 years.

Bauer under 3.50 era over the past 4 years. 

[eligrba]

[Angels 1961]

51 minutes ago, Lou said:

Odorizzi era over 4 over the past 4 years.

Bauer under 3.50 era over the past 4 years. 

Throw out short season 2020 in 19 Odorizzi 3.51 era 15-7 all star pitcher.                                                                                              Bauer in 19, 4.48 era.  Go ahead give this head case 80 to 90 million more. I'm just saying give me Odorizzi, Hand and Petit with last 30 mill.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Throw out short season 2020

No 

[Pancake Bear]

17 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Throw out short season 2020 in 19 Odorizzi 3.51 era 15-7 all star pitcher.                                                                                              Bauer in 19, 4.48 era.  Go ahead give this head case 80 to 90 million more. I'm just saying give me Odorizzi, Hand and Petit with last 30 mill.

Is it your goal to be wrong about everything? This strategy makes basically every error that has all the hallmarks that tend to result in disaster than success  

First, Bauer pitched through injury in 2019. This was common knowledge for Reds fans. He injured his ankle early in the year and pitching through it jacked up his back. You try pitching to major league hitters that way. In 2018, he was an ace. In 2020, he got back to business. He's legit.

Also, throwing out the most recent year of a major leaguer and assuming it's just an aberration goes wrong more often than not. Usually it means decline is starting. 

Hand has potentially worrisome issues in 2020 also. And betting on relievers likewise tends to be a strategy that backfires. 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Bauer ERA under 4 only twice in his career, once last year in a short season. Odorizzi an all star in 2019. I'm just not giving over 100 mill to someone like Bauer too many red flags for me. Odorizzi 3 years 39 mill.

You're throwing out the guy who actually doesn't have red flags and ignoring the huge ones in the guy you like. Pot meet kettle.

Think whatever you want, but don't pretend you're being objective. 

[T.G.]

Why do you guys even bother?

Edited January 23, 2021 by T.G.

[Angels 1961]

13 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Is it your goal to be wrong about everything? This strategy makes basically every error that has all the hallmarks that tend to result in disaster than success  

First, Bauer pitched through injury in 2019. This was common knowledge for Reds fans. He injured his ankle early in the year and pitching through it jacked up his back. You try pitching to major league hitters that way. In 2018, he was an ace. In 2020, he got back to business. He's legit.

Also, throwing out the most recent year of a major leaguer and assuming it's just an aberration goes wrong more often than not. Usually it means decline is starting. 

Hand has potentially worrisome issues in 2020 also. And betting on relievers likewise tends to be a strategy that backfires. 

We will see what happens, I just think he's using Angels like Cole did to jack up price. He wants to pitch for team in WS yearly, that's the Dodgers. Bauer better pitcher than Odorizzi but I'm not giving him 90 million more. 5 or 6 year deals for pitchers usually do not work out. Again that's my opinion .

[Docwaukee]

Has anyone has mentioned going after Odorizzi, Hand and Petit?