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More pitchers coming off the board, are you worried yet?


Angels 1961

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20 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

You've lost me. In what sense are Odorizzi or Tanaka aces?

I was referring to two aces in total in MLB by your criteria when you look over a three year period: Cole and deGrom.

Total miscommunication. I thought you meant free agent pitchers worthy of multi-year contracts. My fault. 

And as far as aces go, 2020 notwithstanding because it was so wonky, I'd say Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Strasburg, Verlander, Greinke, Kershaw were all aces. And we have guys like Bieber and Buehler fast approaching it. 

In 2021, how many among that group will pitch like an ace? My guess would be Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Bieber, and Buehler will. 

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2 hours ago, Second Base said:

Total miscommunication. I thought you meant free agent pitchers worthy of multi-year contracts. My fault. 

And as far as aces go, 2020 notwithstanding because it was so wonky, I'd say Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Strasburg, Verlander, Greinke, Kershaw were all aces. And we have guys like Bieber and Buehler fast approaching it. 

In 2021, how many among that group will pitch like an ace? My guess would be Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Bieber, and Buehler will. 

Scherzer seems just outside for me at the point - at least based on the IP/K/ERA requirements you gave. Bieber and Buehler are both at least close. My basic point was just that I think your criteria is a bit too exclusive to the point that it doesn't account for how many actually qualify. 2/3 and close on the third gets it closer. 

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10 hours ago, Jinzu said:

I think the way people categorize pitchers is subjective, but the best way to keep it consistent is to try and be as objective as possible.

I’d define Ace the same way you do.

Everything else I’d categorize based on value (I like fWAR), since that takes into consideration innings pitched and effectiveness while disregarding “potential”. Potential is just potential until it actually leads to results.

A #1 imo is a top 30 pitchers in baseball based on value over a certain period of time.

#2 is 31-60

#3 is 61-90

and so on.

This is the way that I tend to look at it as well.  Almost by default.  fWAR isn't perfect but it's a good guestimate.  

The Ace moniker becomes fairly fluctuant from year to year so it's almost not worth having a separate designation in my opinion.  But for the most part, I see it as the top 5 and really, the top 3 or 4.  

There is some cross over as you can imagine.   

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3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Total miscommunication. I thought you meant free agent pitchers worthy of multi-year contracts. My fault. 

And as far as aces go, 2020 notwithstanding because it was so wonky, I'd say Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Strasburg, Verlander, Greinke, Kershaw were all aces. And we have guys like Bieber and Buehler fast approaching it. 

In 2021, how many among that group will pitch like an ace? My guess would be Cole, DeGrom, Scherzer, Bieber, and Buehler will. 

I have a hard time considering a guy as an ace if they aren't going to pitch that much.  

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37 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

This is the way that I tend to look at it as well.  Almost by default.  fWAR isn't perfect but it's a good guestimate.  

The Ace moniker becomes fairly fluctuant from year to year so it's almost not worth having a separate designation in my opinion.  But for the most part, I see it as the top 5 and really, the top 3 or 4.  

There is some cross over as you can imagine.   

Scotty mentioned IP/K/ERA combo as how he defines the top pitchers. What would your top stats be for measuring pitchers? I feel like in some ways it's simpler with batters, but with pitchers it's harder to find a single stat (or a few stats) that most accurately measures who the best pitcher(s) is/are (especially on Fangraphs - BRef has ERA+).

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I have to assume the team is getting to a point where they might consider giving Bauer an ultimatum. With only a few other decent options still remaining (Odorizzi and Tanaka), they can’t afford to lose out while waiting for Bauer to make a decision. I am guessing this situation gets resolved this week. 

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There will be no ultimatums. Bauer will chose whichever team he believes fits what he's looking for. Ultimatums will not work. If you've watched his YouTube videos, he would like to make a decision soon as well. In the most recent one that I saw, he is well aware that spring training is coming soon.

 

But I do think it likely a decision is made by next weekend.

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8 hours ago, Mark68 said:

There will be no ultimatums. Bauer will chose whichever team he believes fits what he's looking for. Ultimatums will not work. If you've watched his YouTube videos, he would like to make a decision soon as well. In the most recent one that I saw, he is well aware that spring training is coming soon.

 

But I do think it likely a decision is made by next weekend.

Disagree. If it is down to, say, the Angels and the Mets, and the Angels have the better offer on the table, Bauer may respond to a “make your decision or we will be going in a different direction.” He would lose all his leverage, and possibly a lot of money, if one of his two main suitors was no longer pursuing him. 
 

But I guess if there are several teams after him, with equally strong offers, the threat of one team to move in another direction might not make an impact on his decision. 

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