OC Register: Angels GM Perry Minasian waits patiently for market to get moving

[Junkballer]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Maybe Arte needs to stop trying for the most expensive pitcher and ho for the next ones done.

This waiting has caused failure with the pitching staff for back a few years.

Just make Bauer your take it or leave it offer, and move on!

I would like to see Minasian make a SP move to set a floor with which he has a baseline to move up from or go a different direction.  Getting a plausible #2 sets him up to stay in the Bauer talks, hoping his market declines significantly or he becomes willing to accept a high-AAV/short term contract.  If either of those two things dont happen, he can still trade assets for another SP or spend elsewhere looking to pick up pitching at the trade deadline, but either way he has a floor to work with and can present any Bauer offer as a team that has playoff potential with an existing decent rotation.

[CanadianHalo]

9 minutes ago, floplag said:

if he can prove the logic, why not?
Hes as into analytics as anyone, if the math is sound, and the physical impact is not excessive, why not?
I dont think a lot of guys could do it, but if he can actually prove he can, there's no downside to having one of you best guys get what 5-10 more starts per year?

He also acknowledged the challenges it might present for the rest of the staff. He said he’s team first.
 

However it could work with this staff since there’s always a guy or two injured. Ohtani doing whatever he’s doing. 
 

If there was a team at least willing to at least have that conversation I’d like to think it would be the Angels

[Rollinghard]

"My preferred plan has always been build the offense and bullpen, get the tier two SP, and go.  Shorten the games to 5 or 6 innings with a lockdown pen, outscore the bastards   but i know thats not the preferred view of most."

Sound like the Yankees. Don't know if it still works. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, CanadianHalo said:

He also acknowledged the challenges it might present for the rest of the staff. He said he’s team first.
 

However it could work with this staff since there’s always a guy or two injured. Ohtani doing whatever he’s doing. 
 

If there was a team at least willing to at least have that conversation I’d like to think it would be the Angels

Yes i saw the video as well, and its good that he acknowledges it isnt just about him in that regard.
Knowing he can do this, might also make the SLC shuttle a little less hectic. 

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

The waiting, while at times prudent, may end up costing us.
So far there is no sign of last season lost revenues affecting contracts, by waiting were letting other people set the market.
Weve done this year, after year, after year, and we keep getting priced out.
At some point maybe a different strategy, more aggression, might be in order?
They have to know who they want and what they want to pay, put it out there, get it done, before all of a sudden everyone's costs goes up 25% or more.

this is where the logic falls apart. the player has an agent, and their job is to maximize the contract primarily. minasian can't force them to sign. they're going to have their preliminary discussions, then the player/agent dictate their timeline. the team can only put pressure on signing by pivoting to another player/agent who are at the signing phase. even with that scenario, the original player/agent most likely have numerous other teams to negotiate with still. the threat of signing another player doesn't really leverage the player/agent side. it simply removes your team as one of their options.

[T.G.]

For those of you who are calling for quick action... the lack of patience is what cost the Angels in acquiring players from the Dodgers last off season... right?

[floplag]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

this is where the logic falls apart. the player has an agent, and their job is to maximize the contract primarily. minasian can't force them to sign. they're going to have their preliminary discussions, then the player/agent dictate their timeline. the team can only put pressure on signing by pivoting to another player/agent who are at the signing phase. even with that scenario, the original player/agent most likely have numerous other teams to negotiate with still. the threat of signing another player doesn't really leverage the player/agent side. it simply removes your team as one of their options.

Does it?  unless every player you want says no, which we have no way of knowing, theres no way to tell.
I kinda doubt that would happen, but i could be wrong.
Either way all weve heard so far is the same old "were optimistic" sound bite we got today.
Im over it.

[T.G.]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im over it.

Great.  We bought you a shirt.

 

[floplag]

Just now, T.G. said:

Great.  We bought you a shirt.

 

Not really my color... but thanks 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Does it?  unless every player you want says no, which we have no way of knowing, theres no way to tell.
I kinda doubt that would happen, but i could be wrong.
Either way all weve heard so far is the same old "were optimistic" sound bite we got today.
Im over it.

yes it does. don't get me wrong, i'm cool with people wanting movement. i've said before, i'd feel much better if they had locked in a solid #2 FA SP already, just so they don't get squadoosh like last year. 

but the logic does fall apart in that moment where you're like, "sign or else." the player/agent is like, "or else what? i'll sign with another team. i'm still gathering information, negotiating, weighing offers, etc. i'll sign when i'm comfortable signing."

there's not a whole hell of a lot perry can do about that. as he said, he's been active and he's been talking with FA's and GM's. laying the groundwork for potential deals, it will be revisited when those people are ready to start making some final decisions. 

it's pretty tough to judge perry on being bested by the padres in these trades, their farm system is just better. anyone, here, can argue all they want about equal value, etc., but it's simply the best farm system against the angels rebuilt farm system. it's not too hard to realize which system other teams are going to be more interested in, even just superficially.

[floplag]

33 minutes ago, ukyah said:

yes it does. don't get me wrong, i'm cool with people wanting movement. i've said before, i'd feel much better if they had locked in a solid #2 FA SP already, just so they don't get squadoosh like last year. 

but the logic does fall apart in that moment where you're like, "sign or else." the player/agent is like, "or else what? i'll sign with another team. i'm still gathering information, negotiating, weighing offers, etc. i'll sign when i'm comfortable signing."

there's not a whole hell of a lot perry can do about that. as he said, he's been active and he's been talking with FA's and GM's. laying the groundwork for potential deals, it will be revisited when those people are ready to start making some final decisions. 

it's pretty tough to judge perry on being bested by the padres in these trades, their farm system is just better. anyone, here, can argue all they want about equal value, etc., but it's simply the best farm system against the angels rebuilt farm system. it's not too hard to realize which system other teams are going to be more interested in, even just superficially.

To be clear i didnt say sign or else, thats not what i mean at all. 
WE seem to be playing this waiting game, something has to break soon, why not be the ones putting it out there?  It only help our position to do something even secondary, it isnt like SP is our only need. 

[totdprods]

Could help solve the pen to a degree if we’re rotating the youngsters in there as well. Especially Sandoval, Yan and even Rodriguez

[Jeff Fletcher]

My feeling talking to Minasian is they have a lot of stuff out there, both trades and free agents, and he is waiting for the other side to say yes. 
 

As long as there’s no deadline, it’s hard to justify giving up more than you want to give up so you can make a deal on Jan. 1 instead of Jan 25.

Presumably Minasian is checking in often enough so if another team is about to intercede the Angels can see if they want to up their offer, but short of that you’re negotiating against yourself. 

[angelsnationtalk]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My feeling talking to Minasian is they have a lot of stuff out there, both trades and free agents, and he is waiting for the other side to say yes. 
 

As long as there’s no deadline, it’s hard to justify giving up more than you want to give up so you can make a deal on Jan. 1 instead of Jan 25.

Presumably Minasian is checking in often enough so if another team is about to intercede the Angels can see if they want to up their offer, but short of that you’re negotiating against yourself. 

Do you really suspect the Angels to be in on names like Bauer, Gray, Castillo, Musgrove and maybe even Marquez? Or has those rumors been lead by media only? 

Yes I understand that they're likely in on all of them, but realistically, do you think they're pursuing those names heavily? 

[Revad]

Or at all.  Are the Angels pursing any f...ing pitcher?  Asking for a friend.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Revad

[ukyah]

18 minutes ago, Revad said:

Or at all.  Are the Angels pursing any f...ing pitcher?  Asking for a friend.

the answer is definitively yes. the manager and general manager have both publicly said so. there you go. you should feel better now.

[Lou]

45 minutes ago, Revad said:

Or at all.  Are the Angels pursing any f...ing pitcher?  Asking for a friend.

.

.

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My feeling talking to Minasian is they have a lot of stuff out there, both trades and free agents, and he is waiting for the other side to say yes. 
 

As long as there’s no deadline, it’s hard to justify giving up more than you want to give up so you can make a deal on Jan. 1 instead of Jan 25.

Presumably Minasian is checking in often enough so if another team is about to intercede the Angels can see if they want to up their offer, but short of that you’re negotiating against yourself. 

 

[eligrba]

9 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My feeling talking to Minasian is they have a lot of stuff out there, both trades and free agents, and he is waiting for the other side to say yes. 

This is good news. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Do you really suspect the Angels to be in on names like Bauer, Gray, Castillo, Musgrove and maybe even Marquez? Or has those rumors been lead by media only? 

Yes I understand that they're likely in on all of them, but realistically, do you think they're pursuing those names heavily? 

I have tried to get an idea of the extent to which any of those names are realistic and so far I’ve been unable to get further than the fact that they are involved. 

[totdprods]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My feeling talking to Minasian is they have a lot of stuff out there, both trades and free agents, and he is waiting for the other side to say yes. 
 

As long as there’s no deadline, it’s hard to justify giving up more than you want to give up so you can make a deal on Jan. 1 instead of Jan 25.

Presumably Minasian is checking in often enough so if another team is about to intercede the Angels can see if they want to up their offer, but short of that you’re negotiating against yourself. 

Since it seems there's only a handful of teams actively trying to improve/spend money this winter, and since the start date of the season is probably still a little uncertain, this comes as no surprise. 

I imagine the players are waiting out to see if any other teams start to jump in with offers once ST/season start becomes a little more concrete, and Minasian is waiting for his first choices before moving on to settling for less.

[floplag]

21 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I have tried to get an idea of the extent to which any of those names are realistic and so far I’ve been unable to get further than the fact that they are involved. 

And does that give you a good feeling, or an uneasy one?    
Involved could mean anything from a feeler phone call or initial discussion to extended talks or negotiations.
If you with your resources cant find anything more than that it isnt reassuring. 

[eligrba]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

And does that give you a good feeling, or an uneasy one?    
Involved could mean anything from a feeler phone call or initial discussion to extended talks or negotiations.
If you with your resources cant find anything more than that it isnt reassuring. 

Why must people outside of the process need to know anything?

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Why must people outside of the process need to know anything?

Are we not allowed to be curious?

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Are we not allowed to be curious?

Absolutely.  I am just as curious as you. 

[T.G.]