Indians trading Lindor and Carrasco to the Mets for Gimenez, Rosario, 2 prospects

[tdawg87 32,214]

Trading pitching for pitching doesn't make any sense to me.

[Stradling 27,136]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Trading pitching for pitching doesn't make any sense to me.

I know.  At the same time if you traded Canning for Gray you get a guy where you are pretty sure for the next 2-3 years will be better than Canning.  Think of it the same as trading Noe for Iglesias.  

[Cosmo_Kramer 138]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I know.  At the same time if you traded Canning for Gray you get a guy where you are pretty sure for the next 2-3 years will be better than Canning.  Think of it the same as trading Noe for Iglesias.  

Gray is doable without Canning so it makes no sense. Also Noe is basically worthless in that salary dump trade

[Angelsjunky 10,166]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Not that I want to trade Canning but looking at his trade value, he could return a guy like Gray by himself.  While I don’t want to mortgage the future we do have a window where we have to become very competitive.

Canning could also be a guy like Gray, and is much younger and cheaper. I like Gray and would rather have him over the next two years, but not year three and on and wouldn't make that trade.

Even though there's no assurance he'll be as Gray (he probably won't, but might be close), Canning is under club control for the next five years and will probably make in that time what Gray will make in the next two.

 

[tdawg87 32,214]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I know.  At the same time if you traded Canning for Gray you get a guy where you are pretty sure for the next 2-3 years will be better than Canning.  Think of it the same as trading Noe for Iglesias.  

Well Canning has 5 years of control left, and I don't know if I agree with Gray being better for the next 2-3 years. I mean he may be, but not by enough to warrant that trade. Gray is a good #3, solid #2, which is pretty much Canning's ceiling.

[Erstad Grit 2,238]

I'd prefer trading a scrub for Moustakas and Gray

[rafibomb 2,784]

Has Bauer tweeted about this yet.

[Stradling 27,136]

Maybe I am just down on Canning because I feel like he is fragile.  I like the guy, thought he pitched well last year for the most part.  But it is time to really upgrade the rotation for the next 3 years and make the push.  

[Stradling 27,136]

Just now, rafibomb said:

Has Bauer tweeted about this yet.

Yes.  He said it was interesting with the eyeball emoji.

[T.G. 11,368]

31 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

The Mets now have a rotation of deGrom, Stroman, Syndergaard, Carrasco and Matz or Peterson for their 5th spot. Pretty damn solid pen. 

Heck of a rotation. Best in baseball?

[T.G. 11,368]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes.  He said it was interesting with the eyeball emoji.

What did he have for breakfast?

[Angelsjunky 10,166]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Maybe I am just down on Canning because I feel like he is fragile.  I like the guy, thought he pitched well last year for the most part.  But it is time to really upgrade the rotation for the next 3 years and make the push.  

Yeah, I hear you. Our last two elite pitching prospects--Ohtani and Richards--haven't turned out as hoped.

I think it also has to do with the fact that he is yet another Angels pitching prospect that doesn't have elite stuff, so he is in a different category than Ohtani and Richards. I see him as a lot closer to Sandoval and Barria, just a bit higher upside.

That said, mid-rotation starters aren't sexy, but they're nice to have.

[bloodbrother 9,382]

Cohen's the richest owner in MLB so I wouldn't rule the Mets out for Bauer after this. Might even help them get him after this showing how serious they are about going all in to win

[Angels 1961 288]

Another pitcher off the board for Angels in Carrasco.

[Angel Oracle 13,261]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, so figure out what we have to give up to get both Castillo and Gray.  

I’m too scared to find out.

[gotbeer 10,688]

9 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Heck of a rotation. Best in baseball?

Probably up there with the Padres, Dodgers, and the Angels.

[rafibomb 2,784]

39 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

@Stradling

Adell, Canning, Fletcher, Jackson, and Sandoval would get us close (148.1 to the Reds 150.7).

(Yes, I'm your bitch)

Castillo isn't going to happen. His trade value is 114.8, which is 9th highest among all major leaguers - higher than Trout (due to Trout's mega-contract).  He's a 28-year pitcher who has the 11th highest fWAR over the last two seasons, and is under club control on arb salaries for the next three years. Still, it does seem the Trade sim values him a bit too highly, although he does have more upside.

Gray is definitely do-able, at 35.9, and is much more appealing because he wouldn't cost as much and is only a hair below Castillo. He's under club control for 3/$32M for his age 31-33 seasons and is a bonafide Wheeler-esque #2. 

Didn't realize that Sonny Gray (35.9) and Musgrove (36.4) are practically equal in value according to the Trade Simulator. 

Edited January 7 by rafibomb

[Stradling 27,136]

Just now, rafibomb said:

Didn't realize that Sonny Gray (35.9) and Musgrove (36.4) are practically equal in value according to the Trade Simulator. 

Yea, it isn’t going to be cheap to acquire those guys.  

[Erstad Grit 2,238]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I’m too scared to find out.

[rafibomb 2,784]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, it isn’t going to be cheap to acquire those guys.  

Jordyn Adams, Patrick Sandoval and Jeremiah Jackson is pretty close to equal Gray or Musgrove.

[Stradling 27,136]

5 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Jordyn Adams, Patrick Sandoval and Jeremiah Jackson is pretty close to equal Gray or Musgrove.

When you see how low the value is on a guy like Adams or even Detmers you realize what people here have been saying, which is that our prospects are so young that they haven’t come close to reaching full prospect value.

[mmc 1,258]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

When you see how low the value is on a guy like Adams or even Detmers you realize what people here have been saying, which is that our prospects are so young that they haven’t come close to reaching full prospect value.

Determining the value of those types of prospects is so hard because ultimately it all comes down to team projection.  It's almost pointless for fans to try to gauge the value of any prospect under the age of 22 because ultimately all that matters is how the GM/scouts of the teams we're trading with project that player, which no fan has any knowledge of.

[Erstad Grit 2,238]

If that generator is legit I'd advocate taking on Moose with Gray and thus not giving anything of value. 

[Dochalo 25,220]

I don't get the love for Carrasco.  He's 34 and owed 27m for his age 34 and 35 seasons.  

[T.G. 11,368]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I don't get the love for Carrasco.  He's 34 and owed 27m for his age 34 and 35 seasons.  

I had no idea he was 34.