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The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread


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The Angels desperately needed pitching help last off-season, and this year alone, we've seen a healthy Ohtani, Sandoval and Suarez breakout, and Barria waiting for his chance. 

But wait, it gets better. 

ETA on remaining SP prospects

2022 - Reid Detmers and Chris Rodriguez.

2023 - Sam Bachman

2024 - Jack Kochanowicz

And this doesn't even take into account several of the other possible starters like Robinson Pina or Davis Daniel, or the eventual clicking and resurgence of Griffin Canning. But it does highlight that the Angels are finally in the beginning stages of developing their own high upside pitching. 

 

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I tend to rank prospects with the underlying question, "who would be most unhappy if the Angels traded?" With that question in mind, I think my rankings would currently be:

  1. Marsh
  2. Detmers
  3. C Rodriguez
  4. Bachman
  5. Adell
  6. Adams
  7. Vera
  8. Paris
  9. Jackson
  10. Placencia
  11. A Ramirez
  12. Kochanowicz
  13. Blakely
  14. Calabrese
  15. Daniel

Honorable mentions to Knowles, Holmes, Quero, Bonilla, Hidalgo, Aquino, etc.

 

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50 minutes ago, Second Base said:

The Angels desperately needed pitching help last off-season, and this year alone, we've seen a healthy Ohtani, Sandoval and Suarez breakout, and Barria waiting for his chance. 

But wait, it gets better. 

ETA on remaining SP prospects

2022 - Reid Detmers and Chris Rodriguez.

2023 - Sam Bachman

2024 - Jack Kochanowicz

And this doesn't even take into account several of the other possible starters like Robinson Pina or Davis Daniel, or the eventual clicking and resurgence of Griffin Canning. But it does highlight that the Angels are finally in the beginning stages of developing their own high upside pitching. 

 

I think Detmers and C Rod will be up (or back up) later this year, and Bachman sometime in late 2022 - that's partially why they drafted him, I think: he'll rise quickly. Daniel should be in the majors in 2022, as well.

Pina needs to be transitioned to relief, along with Ortega and Yan. While they've all had rough years, they have the stuff to be good relievers.

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22 hours ago, Second Base said:

I'll include Adell and Rodriguez because in my mind, they're still both prospects. In my book...

1. Brandon Marsh - Borderline all star starting OF, good glove finalist. 

2. Reid Detmers - #2/3 SP. Workhorse.

3. Jo Adell - Bat first starting OF.

4. Chris Rodriguez - 5 inning/90 pitch SP that slots in as a #3/4 starter. 

5. Sam Bachman - Same as Rod, just with slightly better arsenal.

6. Jordyn Adams - Defense first starting OF. 

I like this list a lot.  I'd flip Bachman and Rodriguez, because I still have durability questions about Rodriguez.  He needs to finish with at least 80 innings this year for me to considering him anything beyond a future closer.  His stuff is absolutely electric, and he should spend the rest of the year stretching out.  We already know he can get it done against big league hitters (granted a small sample size, but for a kid his age is impressive), but can his body hold up?  I'd also replace Adams with Vera.  I know Adams is young, but I haven't seen much production this year.  Although, he did look impressive Spring.  

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1 hour ago, tchula said:

I like this list a lot.  I'd flip Bachman and Rodriguez, because I still have durability questions about Rodriguez.  He needs to finish with at least 80 innings this year for me to considering him anything beyond a future closer.  His stuff is absolutely electric, and he should spend the rest of the year stretching out.  We already know he can get it done against big league hitters (granted a small sample size, but for a kid his age is impressive), but can his body hold up?  I'd also replace Adams with Vera.  I know Adams is young, but I haven't seen much production this year.  Although, he did look impressive Spring.  

The reason I rate Rod over him is that Rod had already proven he can get major league hitters out, and in the process of ramping up in AA, has been absolutely dominant. So if the arsenal is similar, which it is, Bachman is obviously a little better, but it comes down to choosing between a finance college arm versus dominant AA arm and I'll take the minor league every time. But I LOVE that there's even a debate on this, it means they drafted well. 

Vera has some helium for sure. I haven't seen him enough to say one way or the other. But lots of people do like Vera a lot. 

 

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6 hours ago, Second Base said:

Anyone else get the feeling that after the draft, the pitching staff to start next year in Tri-Cities is going to be badass? 

Because it is. 

I was actually coming here to post something similar.  Filled in a bunch of the middle of the system on the pitching side today.  

I have to say that I'm super curious about how a bunch of these guy progress and what the team does to move them along.  In my view we've had a bunch of middling pitching prospects perform well this year with a bunch of velo spikes and improvement of secondary pitches.  

I kinda like the idea of becoming a pitching heavy org.  The development process for a pitcher seems so much more straight forward.  Especially with all the analytics.  How much does analytics really play into trying to get a guy to recognize the difference between a fastball and breaking ball?  Or a ball and a strike?  That seems really hard to teach.  Whereas a barrage of video and data to support it can show you that tilting your hand by half a clock face or putting your finger a little more toward one of the seams (shutup) or rotating just a bit more can turn a meh pitch into a plus one.  On top of that, it seems easier to identify as to the players who you might be able to impact.  

and let's be honest.  nothing has more value on the trade market than pitching.  And on top of that, starters have the fall back of becoming a reliever.  Position players that don't work have nowhere to go.  

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5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I was actually coming here to post something similar.  Filled in a bunch of the middle of the system on the pitching side today.  

I have to say that I'm super curious about how a bunch of these guy progress and what the team does to move them along.  In my view we've had a bunch of middling pitching prospects perform well this year with a bunch of velo spikes and improvement of secondary pitches.  

I kinda like the idea of becoming a pitching heavy org.  The development process for a pitcher seems so much more straight forward.  Especially with all the analytics.  How much does analytics really play into trying to get a guy to recognize the difference between a fastball and breaking ball?  Or a ball and a strike?  That seems really hard to teach.  Whereas a barrage of video and data to support it can show you that tilting your hand by half a clock face or putting your finger a little more toward one of the seams (shutup) or rotating just a bit more can turn a meh pitch into a plus one.  On top of that, it seems easier to identify as to the players who you might be able to impact.  

and let's be honest.  nothing has more value on the trade market than pitching.  And on top of that, starters have the fall back of becoming a reliever.  Position players that don't work have nowhere to go.  

I think a lack of pitching is the one major miscalculation Eppler made in building this organization. You can tell that he tried to correct it, holding onto Barria and Suarez, trading for Sandoval, drafting Canning, winning the Ohtani lottery. It all came together a year too late for him, though I do wonder if the hiring of Doug White played a role in that because it seemed to have delayed the development of all three of Barria, Sandoval and Suarez at a crucial point in their career.

But the way the game has shifted, hitting just isn't as valuable as pitching among front offices any more. Just as an example, when you have an elite position player, like Jo Adell before his MLB promotion, you can't just trade him to another organization for an elite pitching prospect. Sure, Adell's upside is higher and he'll likely end up having a higher WAR than most pitchers, but pitching heavy teams likely still don't make that deal. 

Just as an example, if the Angels offered Adell to the Padres for Weathers a year ago, the Padres likely still would've said no. Weathers didn't have Adell's hype, but front offices I think operate with the belief that they can recreate Adell production somewhere in the lineup easier than they can recreate Weathers type of performance in the rotation. 

And we can see it manifest in free agency. Trying to find a quality starting pitcher in that 6-12 million range is incredibly difficult. Eppler mostly failed and Minasian in his first shot has also mostly failed. But getting a quality hitter for 6-12 million? No problem. And because of this, it's becoming abundantly clear that the only way to build a winner short term and long, is to have a steady stream of good pitching pitching prospects. 

So I don't fault the previous regime for Marsh, Adell, Adams, Vera, Ramirez, etc... But it's becoming evident that 10 elite pitching prospects make your farm and eventual major league team stronger than 10 elite position players. Maybe if they go pitching heavy for a couple more drafts, then we'll see balance. 

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22 minutes ago, mmc said:

How would you guys rank our pitching prospects with all the new guys factored in?  You can do top 10 or rank as many as you want but I’m curious to see where you feel they slot in

Just a quick list without tooo much thought. The end of the list would probably change a lot once I think about it more.

1.) Detmers

2.) Rodriguez

3.) Bachman

4.) Kochanowicz

5.) Daniel

6.) Bush

7.) Hidalgo

8.) Holmes (also where is this guy?)

9.) Aquino

10.) Yan

11.) Pina 

12.) Murphy (there's a high chance he ends up in the pen but I love him even with the reliever "risk")

13.) Marceaux

14.) Naughton

15.) Salvador

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Just a quick list without tooo much thought. The end of the list would probably change a lot once I think about it more.

1.) Detmers

2.) Rodriguez

3.) Bachman

4.) Kochanowicz

5.) Daniel

6.) Bush

7.) Hidalgo

8.) Holmes (also where is this guy?)

9.) Aquino

10.) Yan

11.) Pina 

12.) Murphy (there's a high chance he ends up in the pen but I love him even with the reliever "risk")

13.) Marceaux

14.) Naughton

15.) Salvador

 

 

 

I agree with your top five or six. After that, who knows.

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10 hours ago, mmc said:

How would you guys rank our pitching prospects with all the new guys factored in?  You can do top 10 or rank as many as you want but I’m curious to see where you feel they slot in

1 Rodriguez

2 Detmers

These guys are sort of interchangeable for me but I prefer CRod's four pitch mix to Detmers.  For one guy it's a question of whether he can go 5-6 innings, the other if his AA performance will translate at the MLB level.   I'll take the guy that's already proven he can beat MLB hitters every time but it really could be a toss up.

3 Bachman
Purely on the strength of two 70 grade pitches.

4 Daniel

5 Koch

Two more guys that are pretty interchangeable to me.  Koch should be better long term, Daniel is further along, but you can actually see Koch starting to get comfortable and figure it out as he goes which is just really fun to watch.

6 Crow

7 Hildalgo

These two guys are the two guys that are easily the biggest revelations.  It was kind of curious to see them pay so much for Crow out of HS, but then Covid happened and he faded out of mind.  Dude shows up this year throwing a slider from hell which he never showed before and looking significantly further along than anyone could have predicted.  He is IMO the biggest riser in the system.  Hildalgo similarly goes from a guy signed for 30K to showing low to mid 90s stuff at age 18.  These weren't "guys" before 2021, now they both appear to be potential pieces.  They are to the farm system what Shoemaker was to the MLB rotation when he came up..  

8 Bush -- WCC numbers have to be taken with a grain to an extent, but he was particularly good when facing top programs in and out of the conference -- Cal, BYU, Pepperdine, LMU.

9 Holmes

10 Rivera

I wanted to close out my "personal top 10" with two guys who are pure stuff at this point.  Both guys come close to triple digits -- both have yet to pitch this year.  But you can't teach that sort of brute power and the fact that Rivera is a lefty is nice.

The top 5 are likely to be the most impactful, best bets to pan out.   They all have the stuff to be very good at the highest level.  But there is enough talent in the system to not feel like there is a big gaping hole on the mound, particularly given how Sandoval, and Suarez have come along this year at the MLB level.  Now they need to fix Canning.

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3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

1 Rodriguez

2 Detmers

These guys are sort of interchangeable for me but I prefer CRod's four pitch mix to Detmers.  For one guy it's a question of whether he can go 5-6 innings, the other if his AA performance will translate at the MLB level.   I'll take the guy that's already proven he can beat MLB hitters every time but it really could be a toss up.

3 Bachman
Purely on the strength of two 70 grade pitches.

4 Daniel

5 Koch

Two more guys that are pretty interchangeable to me.  Koch should be better long term, Daniel is further along, but you can actually see Koch starting to get comfortable and figure it out as he goes which is just really fun to watch.

6 Crow

7 Hildalgo

These two guys are the two guys that are easily the biggest revelations.  It was kind of curious to see them pay so much for Crow out of HS, but then Covid happened and he faded out of mind.  Dude shows up this year throwing a slider from hell which he never showed before and looking significantly further along than anyone could have predicted.  He is IMO the biggest riser in the system.  Hildalgo similarly goes from a guy signed for 30K to showing low to mid 90s stuff at age 18.  These weren't "guys" before 2021, now they both appear to be potential pieces.  They are to the farm system what Shoemaker was to the MLB rotation when he came up..  

8 Bush -- WCC numbers have to be taken with a grain to an extent, but he was particularly good when facing top programs in and out of the conference -- Cal, BYU, Pepperdine, LMU.

9 Holmes

10 Rivera

I wanted to close out my "personal top 10" with two guys who are pure stuff at this point.  Both guys come close to triple digits -- both have yet to pitch this year.  But you can't teach that sort of brute power and the fact that Rivera is a lefty is nice.

The top 5 are likely to be the most impactful, best bets to pan out.   They all have the stuff to be very good at the highest level.  But there is enough talent in the system to not feel like there is a big gaping hole on the mound, particularly given how Sandoval, and Suarez have come along this year at the MLB level.  Now they need to fix Canning.

Good stuff, IP. The guy that I see as something of a sleeper is Stiward Aquino, who I might rank right there with Holmes and Rivera.

Also, Pina pitched much better in his demotion to Inland Empire (1.19 ERA, 6 walks and 33 Ks), and is doing better since being re-promoted to Tri-City (4.50 ERA, 6 walks and 15 Ks in 10 IP). I still see him as a potential plus major league reliever. Similarly, I had high hopes that Ortega would breeze through the high minors and potentially be in Anaheim sometime in the second half, but he's getting hit. Still, peripherals aren't bad and after getting bombed on June 25, his last five appearances have been excellent (5.1 IP, 1 hit, 0 ER, 3 walks, 8 Ks).

I like C Rod's stuff a bit better than Detmers, but still have concerns about his health and long-term ability to stick as a starter. But if he stays healthy, I think he's a legit #2, while Detmers is more of a potential #2.5. IMO. But they really are interchangeable, as far as rankings are concerned.

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