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Angels linked to Tomoyuki Sugano, deadline is 1/7 (update: stays in NPB)


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You spend so much time trying to elevate yourself above others on this site it's kinda funny.   So, you're in the wait and see camp... but "he screwed up" Pretty sure everyone and their brother w

One good starter and a shut down pen would work.  If you need help you can get it at the deadline.  

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7 minutes ago, failos said:

Why are so many teams passing on this guy? Is it just $$ or what

Meh stuff (it's basically Dylan Bundy's fastball/slider) + age 31 + only Japan as a track record + overall MLB budget climate being tight = not a lot of interest.

Also he had a Tanaka elbow thing in 2014.  (Ligament damage, but no TJ surgery, just rehab like Tanaka).  Another thing to be nervous about.

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1 minute ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Meh stuff (it's basically Dylan Bundy's fastball/slider) + age 31 + only Japan as a track record + overall MLB budget climate being tight = not a lot of interest.

What did you use for determining he is basically Bundy with meh stuff?

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 @AngelsjunkyIf I were to handicap it, I'd say....

Angels - 30% (Need, location and money)

Mariners - 20% (Dipoto FO is full of leaks and they've been silent. So either change in MO or they're out)

Blue Jays - 20% (Recent report says they're out, but that could change)

Padres - 10% (Seem to have enough pitching but they're aggressive, can't count them out). 

Rangers - 10% (Need and have made Japanese acquisitions before)

Japan - 10% (He's already here and hired an American agent).

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2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

What did you use for determining he is basically Bundy with meh stuff?

Dug up some of the BA scouting reports.  90-93 FB.  Plus slider.  Good command on fb/slider.  Okay curveball.  Was at 96-98 earlier in career, now sits 90-91, touches 93.

This sounds exactly like Bundy.

And to clarify, I consider Bundy's stuff "meh" also.  But he learned how to pitch his meh in 2020 for the first time in his career.

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8 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Meh stuff (it's basically Dylan Bundy's fastball/slider) + age 31 + only Japan as a track record + overall MLB budget climate being tight = not a lot of interest.

Also he had a Tanaka elbow thing in 2014.  (Ligament damage, but no TJ surgery, just rehab like Tanaka).  Another thing to be nervous about.

You realize bundy received cy young votes last season?

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10 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Dug up some of the BA scouting reports.  90-93 FB.  Plus slider.  Good command on fb/slider.  Okay curveball.  Was at 96-98 earlier in career, now sits 90-91, touches 93.

This sounds exactly like Bundy.

 

A huge difference between Bundy and Sugano could be superior spin-rate on his pitches. Also, you forgot to include main offspeed pitch in your post which is his splitter/forkball. 

 

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Sugano pitched against Team USA in the semifinals at Dodger Stadium and was lights-out for six innings, allowing just one unearned run on three hits. He struck out six in that game -- Nolan Arenado three times and Christian Yelich, Giancarlo Stanton and Adam Jones once each.

We also got some early Statcast data on Sugano from that game, since it was in an MLB stadium. Sugano flashed very high spin rate on both his fastball and curveball, averaging 2,513 rpm on his fastball and 2,859 rpm on his curve with a max of 3,079 rpm.

For comparison, in 2020, the Major League average four-seam fastball spin rate was 2,306 rpm, and the average curveball spin rate was 2,533 rpm. High fastball and curveball spin tend to be good signs for a pitcher.

 

 

For comparison's sake, Bundy is in the 78th percentile of fastball spin-rate with an average spin of 2,422 (Sugano - 2,513) and his curveball is in the 28th percentile with an average spin of 2,349 (Sugano - 2,859). This could lead us to assume his slider and splitter might have elite spin numbers as well.

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7 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

You compared sugano to Bundy,  but in a pejorative way.  You describing Bundy's stuff as meh doesn't make sense to me considering he received cy young votes. 

Where was the pejorative?  There was none.  You'll also note that I make no mention of being opposed to signing Sugano.  I'd like to see it at the right price.

I would be curious which pitch(es) in Bundy's arsenal you think are well above average.

Sometimes command and pitchability can elevate a pitcher above his stuff into Cy Young votes.  Jamie Moyer got CYA votes three different seasons in his career. 

No one would think describing Moyer's stuff as "meh" would be either incorrect or insulting.  Same for Bundy.  Meh stuff, but pitched his brains out in 2020 with excellent command and pitch selection.  If we get Sugano and he does the same, he'd be worth the $10m-$12m they are talking about.

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16 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Also, you forgot to include main offspeed pitch in your post which is his splitter/forkball.

Eh, I didn't "forget", BA made no mention of it.  Thanks for the extra info.  That would be a big plus if that 4th pitch plays.

Thanks for the info on spin rate too, that is a plus in Sugano's favor.  Bundy has to kind of tiptoe around the strike zone with his 4-seamer due to that low spin rate.

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11 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Where was the pejorative?  There was none.  You'll also note that I make no mention of being opposed to signing Sugano.  I'd like to see it at the right price.

I would be curious which pitch(es) in Bundy's arsenal you think are well above average.

Sometimes command and pitchability can elevate a pitcher above his stuff into Cy Young votes.  Jamie Moyer got CYA votes three different seasons in his career. 

No one would think describing Moyer's stuff as "meh" would be either incorrect or insulting.  Same for Bundy.  Meh stuff, but pitched his brains out in 2020 with excellent command and pitch selection.  If we get Sugano and he does the same, he'd be worth the $10m-$12m they are talking about.

I interpret meh as average at best. 

Perhaps the difference between us is you seem to view Bundy as having meh stuff but with good control referencing Moyer. 

I'd suggest control is part of a pitchers stuff as opposed to separate,  but I understand your viewpoint. 

Where I think we agree is if sugano is comparable with Bundy that could be a good option if the price makes sense.  

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I kind of think we have to be favorites here given all (very little) we know.

If we do sign him I'm not really sure how I'll feel about it. He gives us an arm we need but he doesn't seem to represent the quality we lack. His asking price probably takes us out of the running for Bauer as well, which significantly reduces our chances of getting a top half of the rotation caliber starter.

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