Angels linked to Tomoyuki Sugano, deadline is 1/7 (update: stays in NPB)

[rafibomb]

So he will be eligible to come stateside again next year where he will be another year older and still face the same question marks as he does now. Awesome.

[Halodays]

I guess he wasn't as legendary to the teams as he was in hid own mind.

[Vlad27Trout27]

it'll be interesting to see just what teams were willing to give him. This may have been his last and only chance to get a big contract here. he'll be 32 next years. 

[Angelsjunky]

[AngelsLakersFan]

I'm glad we didn't get him.

[beatlesrule]

Now Minasian will need to sign or trade for a better starter or this was a missed opportunity. That is, if he even wanted to play in Anaheim in the first place.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Now Minasian will need to sign or trade for a better starter or this was a missed opportunity. That is, if he even wanted to play in Anaheim in the first place.

Dude wants to be paid. 

This isn't Ohtani leaving millions on the table because he wants to compete at the highest level, it's a guy wanting to cash a retirement paycheck..   

[gotbeer]

Well, at least it was something to think about the last few days.  At least hockey starts in a week.

[mmc]

I’m not upset about this as of right now, but if Odorizzi/Bauer/Tanaka/Paxton sign elsewhere and Gray/Musgrove/etc get traded elsewhere or stay put and we end up with flyers like Quintana and Happ, then yeah I’ll be pissed we didn’t just bite the bullet and give Sugano his $13M AAV that it would’ve taken to get him to sign here

[beatlesrule]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Dude wants to be paid. 

This isn't Ohtani leaving millions on the table because he wants to compete at the highest level, it's a guy wanting to cash a retirement paycheck..   

Ok but he is still a good pitcher so if Minasian doesn't get a better or equally as good as one, he screwed up.

[Angels in 2030]

Although i do believe the thought process that our new FO isn't talking....i gotta believe we were not seriously considering Sugano.  He basically was there for the taking -- just a few million per year.  No prospect cost, no lost draft pick, etc.  You'd think we'd be all over him.  So the glass-half-full part of me takes that as a positive on some other avenues we have for getting 1-2 SPs (Bauer, Odorizzi, trades, etc.).  That or Perry thought Sugano sucked.

[Lou]

20 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Now Minasian will need to sign or trade for a better starter or this was a missed opportunity. That is, if he even wanted to play in Anaheim in the first place.

That goes for all 30 teams. 

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Looks like he is going to pitch for the Giants. 

In Japan. 

I agree. 

[beatlesrule]

13 minutes ago, Lou said:

That goes for all 30 teams. 

Not many need as much pitching help as the Angels and not as many are under the microscope and as criticized either. Oh and 29 of them don't have Mike Trout. I know that certain posters here will stick up for ANYTHING the Angels FO does or doesn't do so I'm sure some kind of spin will come from them about how Minasian made all the right moves by whatever pitchers he does or doesn't sign or does or doesn't trade for. I don't know much about Sugano but there is this: Sugano owns a stellar 2.34 ERA over 1,362 innings with the Giants, and he has won two MVPs and a pair of Pitcher of the Year awards in Japan. I'm hoping this is finally the year Arte actually wants to do EVERYTHING he can to win a World Series. So far, he hasn't so it's wait and see.

[T.G.]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:35 PM, Second Base said:

I mean just adding it up guys, I think he might be an Angel.

 

On 1/5/2021 at 2:14 PM, Second Base said:

Process of elimination looking good for the Angels so far.

[Inside Pitch]

20 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I know that certain posters here will stick up for ANYTHING the Angels FO does or doesn't do so I'm sure some kind of spin will come from them about how Minasian made all the right moves by whatever pitchers he does or doesn't sign or does or doesn't trade for. I don't know much about Sugano so I'm in the wait and see camp with this. I'm hoping this is finally the year Arte actually wants to do EVERYTHING he can to win a World Series. So far, he hasn't so again, wait and see.

You spend so much time trying to elevate yourself above others on this site it's kinda funny.   So, you're in the wait and see camp... but "he screwed up"

Pretty sure everyone and their brother was keen on signing this guy -- but where you seemingly were willing to sign him regardless of his asking price, others (including all of MLB) see it differently.   

Personally, I have no clue what the right moves are this year.  They need arms, period...  But with so much up in the air it's hard to gauge what a good deal is .vs a bad deal, at least IMO.  I've said repeatedly that I hope the Angels capitalize on what might end up being a depressed market by spending but they also can't make a Kikuchi sized mistake and be stuck with a 15 mil a year anchor right as they are about to get out from under the Pujols deal.

I've been critical of Arte, I've questioned his ability to see the forest for the trees but I'm not going to fault him, or Minasian, or Eppler, or Jerry fucking Dipoto for choosing to miss out on the "opportunity" to give this guy his retirement contract.

Guess we will see what they missed out on if he ever does actually pitch in MLB.

 

[Second Base]

16 minutes ago, T.G. said:

 

Yeah I know, total bummer. 

[beatlesrule]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You spend so much time trying to elevate yourself above others on this site it's kinda funny.   

Pretty sure everyone and their brother was keen on signing this guy -- but where you seemingly were willing to sign him regardless of his asking price, others (including all of MLB) see it differently.   

Personally, I have no clue what the right moves are this year.  They need arms, period, with so much up in the air it's hard to gauge what a good deal is .vs a bad deal.  I've said repeatedly that I hope the Angels capitalize on what might end up being a depressed market by spending but they also can't make a Kikuchi sized mistake and be stuck with a 15 mil a year anchor right as they are about to get out from under the Pujols deal.

I've been critical of Arte, I've questioned his ability to see the forest for the trees but I'm not going to fault him, or Minasian, or Eppler, or Jerry fucking Dipoto for choosing to miss out on the "opportunity" to give this guy his retirement contract.

Guess we will see what they missed out on if he ever does actually pitch in MLB.

 

Sugano owns a stellar 2.34 ERA over 1,362 innings with the Giants, and he has won two MVPs and a pair of Pitcher of the Year awards in Japan. Seems like Arte should have signed him. Dude is only 31. A retirement contract is laughable. He wasn't looking for a 7-10 year deal.

Elevate myself? How exactly? I'm the realist poster which is pretty much the same as being a pessimist. I want the Angels to win a World Series. That's ALL I care about. That poll that was done here about Trout being an Angel for life but no world series or Trout leaving and the Angels winning the World Series had a good amount of votes for the Angels not winning a World Series. That SICKENS me. I can't even comprehend that. The ultimate goal in sports is to win it all. Something Arte has shown he is inept at doing. That is FACT. Not an opinion. The owner of the Angels has NOT won a World Series. He has not gone all out every year he's had the best player in baseball. Another fact. I'm still bitter he didn't trade for Cabrera. Showed us early on the kind of owner he was going to be. I know I need to get over it but this team would have been way better with Cabrera and then not signing Beltre and all the other boneheaded moves he allowed to happen or was directly responsible for.

I am just over Arte being the owner of my favorite team. This is nothing I can do about it. The Angels are Arte's play thing. He doesn't live and breathe baseball. He has shown over and over again he has no idea what he is doing. If he generally wants the Angels to win a World Series, he needs to sell them to an owner that can make that happen. Most of us know the big names still out there. Arte can absolutely get all or most all of them. He will go over the tax but will also show us he actually gives a damn. Okay, rant over.

[ukyah]

56 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Now Minasian will need to sign or trade for a better starter or this was a missed opportunity. That is, if he even wanted to play in Anaheim in the first place.

i really don't see it as a missed opportunity if the contract demands were so high that not a single mlb team was willing to meet them.

[Stradling]

36 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Ok but he is still a good pitcher so if Minasian doesn't get a better or equally as good as one, he screwed up.

Maybe. But it’s nothing we can prove this year.  

[T.G.]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:52 PM, failos said:

MLB just shot itself in the foot. I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese baseball culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an a******. If you screw someone over in Japan by shitty negotiating, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance. What this means is the Japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to support the MLB, nor will they watch any games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but MLB has alienated an entire market with this move. Every MLB GM needs to  publicly apologize and resign or you can kiss future Japanese baseball players from coming to the USA good-bye.

[Angels in 2030]

Actually Beatles, you have it backwards.  Arte's problem is trying too hard to win it all -- going for it with big contracts and guys at the end (or past) their prime.  He's spent TOO much money on the team on the field -- not enough within the organization (scouts, development team, etc.) and building said organization from the buttom up with a long-term view.  You try to jump ahead to the line and you usually screw yourself when all's said & done.  I give him props for trying and wanting to win.  But it's not the best path LT.

[beatlesrule]

4 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i really don't see it as a missed opportunity if the contract demands were so high that not a single mlb team was willing to meat them.

 

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Maybe. But it’s nothing we can prove this year.  

Both valid and good points. Strictly going by his Japan numbers, dude would have helped us even if his ERA was a full run higher. Again, he might have wanted nothing to do with Anaheim. Unless reports come out that the Angels didn't even ask about him, it's only speculation. On the surface, it sure seems like the Angels should have been the team to meet his asking price.

[ukyah]

1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

 

Both valid and good points. Strictly going by his Japan numbers, dude would have helped us even if his ERA was a full run higher. Again, he might have wanted nothing to do with Anaheim. Unless reports come out that the Angels didn't even ask about him, it's only speculation. On the surface, it sure seems like the Angels should have been the team to meet his asking price.

if i were in minasian's shoes i, personally, would not have given him the kikuchi contract. his results and pitching repertoire match kikuchi's results in japan and kikuchi is younger by several years. that looks to me like a "let's see" type of contract, not a big money contract. kikuchi has been roasted by mlb hitters.

i would have liked his potential on a team friendly contract, but i'm perfectly fine with minasian not doing a deal that i wouldn't have done myself. 

i'm curious to see if/when he opts out next year, if his opportunities will be any different. i can see his american agent testing the waters before the opt out deadline to see if taking advantage of the opt out is warranted. at some point, a pitcher with his success in NPB, would be embarrassed by mlb's continued rejection of his self perceived worth. i think the dude made a ton of mistakes on his strategy this go around, and it's probably cost him any mlb career at all.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Sugano owns a stellar 2.34 ERA over 1,362 innings with the Giants, and he has won two MVPs and a pair of Pitcher of the Year awards in Japan. Seems like Arte should have signed him. Dude is only 31. A retirement contract is laughable. He wasn't looking for a 7-10 year deal.

I'm sorry you don't understand what the term retirement contract implies, but it has nothing to do with age.  

Grats on being able to look up stats, if only there was a proven way to translate them -- there isn't.  DiceK, Irabu, Igawa...   Yoshii, Fukumori, Kawakami...   they all had stellar careers in Japan and came over with a certain amount of fanfare and hype and fell short.  What's funnier is that guys like Iwakuma and Kuroda who were thought to be back end or fringe guys at the time they came over did well.   Japanese players are still an inexact science.

2 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Elevate myself? How exactly? I'm the realist poster which is pretty much the same as being a pessimist.

LOL -- by constantly referring to yourself as the "realist" while simultaneously painting everyone else as a mindless front office drone is how..   You do it all the time.

2 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I want the Angels to win a World Series. That's ALL I care about. That poll that was done here about Trout being an Angel for life but no world series or Trout leaving and the Angels winning the World Series had a good amount of votes for the Angels not winning a World Series. That SICKENS me. I can't even comprehend that.

Look, you're doing it again.   BTW, I haven't read through the thread so, I don't have an opinion.

2 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I am just over Arte being the owner of my favorite team. This is nothing I can do about it. The Angels are Arte's play thing. He doesn't live and breathe baseball. He has shown over and over again he has no idea what he is doing. If he generally wants the Angels to win a World Series, he needs to sell them to an owner that can make that happen. Most of us know the big names still out there. Arte can absolutely get all or most all of them. He will go over the tax but will also show us he actually gives a damn. Okay, rant over.

So write Arte a stern letter telling him you've had enough and spare us the self aggrandizing BS...   

You're not special, you're not offering up an original thought...  I'm pretty sure most people wish Arte would do more.  I'd be willing to bet that everyone would love to see him go all out but at the same time, people have also seen what's happened when he's spent like a sailor and it's blown up in his face.  Does that make them less passionate about the Angels or less stupid?  People like you that think any owner that isn't blowing his wad to win isn't trying while at the same time patting yourself on the back for being a realist crack me up..  Such a realistic mindset.  

Very few owners do that on any sort of a consistent basis... and more importantly, it's been a long ass time since spending was the end all be all to winning in MLB.   The Angels havent failed because they have failed to spend -- they failed because they failed to plan.  They let the foundation rot, they trusted the wrong people.  Mistakes were made, and many of them were 100% because they chose to spend, when they shouldn't have.