Right Field Options for the Angels

[Docwaukee]

16 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I would take on Blackmon if it meant not giving up Adell in order to get Marquez.

He’s owed 22 m and has a 22 M and a 10 M player options the next two years. 
 

His defense is terrible but he’s a good left handed Hitter.

that player option has a bunch of incentive that can take it to 18m and he's already met a lot of it.  

he's a miserable defender and he's an average hitter at best away from home.  

not sure I'd do that.  our OF defense would be the worst in baseball.  

[Erstad Grit]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:34 PM, Angels 1961 said:

Ohtani had TJS Oct 1, 1918 returned to mound July 2020 so 22 months after TJS and what happened more arm problems. So as an organization the Angels have to be thinking what to do with Ohtani if he can not pitch again. With all his talent he will not just be a DH. So it's safe to say RF will be an option.

You're obsessed with this opinion which you refuse to realize is a bad baseball take. I noticed you asked about Ohtani in RF  in a MLB Traderumors Q & A and he said  the same thing we're all saying here. Let it go man. Move on to a new topic. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

3 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

You're obsessed with this opinion which you refuse to realize is a bad baseball take. I noticed you asked about Ohtani in RF  in a MLB Traderumors Q & A and he said  the same thing we're all saying here. Let it go man. Move on to a new topic. 

Another way to say it -- he way too damn good as a pitcher for them to throw in the towel. He probably has one more year as a starter at least, and if that messes up he has another two-three as a reliever before they just move him to the field. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:23 AM, totdprods said:

Thinking outside the box a little bit, I read that Joe Musgrove and Adam Frazier are getting a lot of hits in trade talks with the Pirates.

Frazier has played a decent amount of time in RF, though most of it earlier in his career. He’s a lefty who has a solid .774 OPS against righties, is under control for two more years, and will cost around $4m in arb.

Musgrove has been speculated on here a ton, and I think with Minasian on board now he’s even more of a target. He was drafted by Toronto when Perry was there, and the Braves were interested in him in trade talks. Parting with an elite package for Musgrove might be a little risky, but expanding it to add a reliever, Stallings, or perhaps now Frazier as a UT guy and platoon option with Ward could be another scenario.

Its funny -- we could actually hit nearly all of our offseason needs in one trade with the Pirates. We could get: Musgrove, Taillion, Frazier and a reliever (Richard Rodriguez seems pretty good). Sure, it would cost us a ton of prospects (Adell wouldn't be enough on his own), but it would be fairly cost-effective - 9 Million Bucks for the lot. We could then sign Realmuto+ Hand/Bradley and suddenly, we have a killer offense, killer bullpen, and a deep (if average-ish) rotation. I mean, look at this lineup:

• 2B - Fletcher            P1 - Musgrove
• CF - Trout                 P2 - Bundy
• 3B - Rendon             P3 - Heany
• DH - Ohtani              P4 - Taillon
• 1B - Walsh                 P5 - Canning
• RF - Upton                P6 - Ohtani  
• LF - Frazier               CL - Iglasias
• SS - Iglasias              SU - Hand
• Bench: Pujols, Stassi, Rengifo
• RP - Mayers, Buttry, Rodriguez, Pena, Sandoval

Alternatively, we could still sign Bauer and flip a pitcher in a package for another reliever/starter/catcher as needed. I wouldn't do this (I am not a Taillion fan at all, and I think the Pirates want a bunch to get him) , but it would solve a ton of issues we have. 

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

I would take on Blackmon if it meant not giving up Adell in order to get Marquez.

He’s owed 22 m and has a 22 M and a 10 M player options the next two years. 
 

His defense is terrible but he’s a good left handed Hitter.

Using baseball trade values as a reference, we'd probably still have to give up Adell in the process and a bit more.  Blackman carries negative trade value, but not too much, and Marquez has a boatload of surplus value.

I'd pass on the idea of taking on both, as we'd be adding ~26mil to payroll.  If we are going to do that, we might as well just sign Bauer instead and keep Adell.  Blackman is a decent LHH, but his numbers are dropping as he gets older, and we would likely be on the hook for 3 years of fairly mediocre production coming out of RF.

[Warfarin]

20 minutes ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

Its funny -- we could actually hit nearly all of our offseason needs in one trade with the Pirates. We could get: Musgrove, Taillion, Frazier and a reliever (Richard Rodriguez seems pretty good). Sure, it would cost us a ton of prospects (Adell wouldn't be enough on his own), but it would be fairly cost-effective - 9 Million Bucks for the lot. We could then sign Realmuto+ Hand/Bradley and suddenly, we have a killer offense, killer bullpen, and a deep (if average-ish) rotation. I mean, look at this lineup:

• 2B - Fletcher            P1 - Musgrove
• CF - Trout                 P2 - Bundy
• 3B - Rendon             P3 - Heany
• DH - Ohtani              P4 - Taillon
• 1B - Walsh                 P5 - Canning
• RF - Upton                P6 - Ohtani  
• LF - Frazier               CL - Iglasias
• SS - Iglasias              SU - Hand
• Bench: Pujols, Stassi, Rengifo
• RP - Mayers, Buttry, Rodriguez, Pena, Sandoval

Alternatively, we could still sign Bauer and flip a pitcher in a package for another reliever/starter/catcher as needed. I wouldn't do this (I am not a Taillion fan at all, and I think the Pirates want a bunch to get him) , but it would solve a ton of issues we have. 

It's an interesting idea, but I'd probably avoid signing Realmuto.

Also, in truth, I wouldn't trade Adell in a deal for Musgrove, who just comes with 2 years of control.  The other pieces you listed (LHH OF, reliever, etc) can be found fairly cheaply as free agents, so we don't really need to lump that into a trade.

I'd just focus on putting Adell in a package for a top-tier arm, and instead signing a middle-tier SP as a free agent.  Musgrove is more of a middle-tier guy than a top of the rotation guy.

[Tank]

16 hours ago, T.G. said:

I have a new idea... how about Ohtani?

dude, come on.

he can't play right field AND be our closer at the same time.

it's like you're not even trying . . .

[Angels 1961]

7 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

You're obsessed with this opinion which you refuse to realize is a bad baseball take. I noticed you asked about Ohtani in RF  in a MLB Traderumors Q & A and he said  the same thing we're all saying here. Let it go man. Move on to a new topic. 

Again you miss the point. If he cannot pitch what do you do with Ohtani? With all his talent he will not just DH again if he cannot pitch. I'm sure the Angel organization has had discussion about this. Joe Maddon has also spoken about this. So my question to you if Ohtani cannot pitch what do you do with him?

[Erstad Grit]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

Again you miss the point. If he cannot pitch what do you do with Ohtani? With all his talent he will not just DH again if he cannot pitch. I'm sure the Angel organization has had discussion about this. Joe Maddon has also spoken about this. So my question to you if Ohtani cannot pitch what do you do with him?

That's a fair question. With zero insider knowledge this is my intuition on how that process would go.

2021  season Ohtani will. be slowly worked back into a SP. If he has another major set-back......

2022 season Ohtani would potentially be experimented with as a RP with an end goal of being a SP again. If somehow he experienced another major set back....

Perhaps 2023 season Ohtani would begin experimenting with OF or 1B.

So in my opinion we are two catastrophic injury filled years away from your topic having urgency or relevancy. 

[Angels 1961]

7 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

That's a fair question. With zero insider knowledge this is my intuition on how that process would go.

2021  season Ohtani will. be slowly worked back into a SP. If he has another major set-back......

2022 season Ohtani would potentially be experimented with as a RP with an end goal of being a SP again. If somehow he experienced another major set back....

Perhaps 2023 season Ohtani would begin experimenting with OF or 1B.

So in my opinion we are two catastrophic injury filled years away from your topic having urgency or relevancy. 

In my opinion it will happen sooner if he cannot pitch. 

[ukyah]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:58 PM, T.G. said:

As a fan, Puig is among the last players I want to see on the Angels. In fact, I'd just assume he never play again.

Anyone miss Milton Bradley?

 

is puig really as bad as milton bradley? i really lean towards no on that.

milton bradley had real emotional issues. like legitimate psychiatric problems. 

puig just seems like a weirdo, to me at least.

i don't know anything about his sexual charges, having walked the earth for 47 years i let shit like that play out before i judge a person.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

19 hours ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

Its funny -- we could actually hit nearly all of our offseason needs in one trade with the Pirates. We could get: Musgrove, Taillion, Frazier and a reliever (Richard Rodriguez seems pretty good). Sure, it would cost us a ton of prospects (Adell wouldn't be enough on his own), but it would be fairly cost-effective - 9 Million Bucks for the lot. We could then sign Realmuto+ Hand/Bradley and suddenly, we have a killer offense, killer bullpen, and a deep (if average-ish) rotation. I mean, look at this lineup:

• 2B - Fletcher            P1 - Musgrove
• CF - Trout                 P2 - Bundy
• 3B - Rendon             P3 - Heany
• DH - Ohtani              P4 - Taillon
• 1B - Walsh                 P5 - Canning
• RF - Upton                P6 - Ohtani  
• LF - Frazier               CL - Iglasias
• SS - Iglasias              SU - Hand
• Bench: Pujols, Stassi, Rengifo
• RP - Mayers, Buttry, Rodriguez, Pena, Sandoval

Alternatively, we could still sign Bauer and flip a pitcher in a package for another reliever/starter/catcher as needed. I wouldn't do this (I am not a Taillion fan at all, and I think the Pirates want a bunch to get him) , but it would solve a ton of issues we have. 

You missed the catcher position in your lineup.

[totdprods]

If we don’t max out payroll on Bauer, more and more I like the idea of signing Joc. He isn’t perfect but he could come fairly cheap and his ceiling would be a real lift to the team if he meets it.

I don’t think there’s anyone else who checks all the boxes as well as Joc does. He could 1) fill a need 2) with little financial or year commitment and 3) probably give you a legit above-average offensive season 

[eligrba]

Ward didn't look that terrible in RF in retrospect.  I don't think it is the worst option available for the Angels to have him in RF for the start of the season.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Ward didn't look that terrible in RF in retrospect.  I don't think it is the worst option available for the Angels to have him in RF for the start of the season.

He’d platoon well with someone like Joc since he is basically useless against lefties. It gives Ward some legitimate utility to the team and an opportunity to see if he has perhaps turned a corner into being at least a decent MLB role player. Ward can still pick up the occasional game at LF or 1B too, and maybe continue working on some third-string catching work. 

[eligrba]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He’d platoon well with someone like Joc since he is basically useless against lefties. It gives Ward some legitimate utility to the team and an opportunity to see if he has perhaps turned a corner into being at least a decent MLB role player. Ward can still pick up the occasional game at LF or 1B too, and maybe continue working on some third-string catching work. 

Ward has better stats hitting against right handers than left handers, why would platooning him with a left handed player be better?

[totdprods]

3 hours ago, eligrba said:

Ward has better stats hitting against right handers than left handers, why would platooning him with a left handed player be better?

Because Joc definitely can’t hit left-handers, and Joc’s track record vs. righties is significantly longer and better than Ward’s.

Ward had 62 plate appearances vs. RHP last year in his ‘breakout’ and a .771 OPS in those 62 PA. With a .400 BAbip.

On his career, a much larger sample size, he has a .670 OPS vs. LHP compared to .613 vs. RHP.

I see no reason why this would be an issue. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by totdprods

[Angels 1961]

Scott Schebler and Ward to start the season. 

[floplag]

On 12/16/2020 at 4:57 AM, ScruffytheJanitor said:

Its funny -- we could actually hit nearly all of our offseason needs in one trade with the Pirates. We could get: Musgrove, Taillion, Frazier and a reliever (Richard Rodriguez seems pretty good). Sure, it would cost us a ton of prospects (Adell wouldn't be enough on his own), but it would be fairly cost-effective - 9 Million Bucks for the lot. We could then sign Realmuto+ Hand/Bradley and suddenly, we have a killer offense, killer bullpen, and a deep (if average-ish) rotation. I mean, look at this lineup:

• 2B - Fletcher            P1 - Musgrove
• CF - Trout                 P2 - Bundy
• 3B - Rendon             P3 - Heany
• DH - Ohtani              P4 - Taillon
• 1B - Walsh                 P5 - Canning
• RF - Upton                P6 - Ohtani  
• LF - Frazier               CL - Iglasias
• SS - Iglasias              SU - Hand
• Bench: Pujols, Stassi, Rengifo
• RP - Mayers, Buttry, Rodriguez, Pena, Sandoval

Alternatively, we could still sign Bauer and flip a pitcher in a package for another reliever/starter/catcher as needed. I wouldn't do this (I am not a Taillion fan at all, and I think the Pirates want a bunch to get him) , but it would solve a ton of issues we have. 

Where is any indication this package is actually available?  

[greginpsca]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:44 AM, Angels 1961 said:

Again you miss the point. If he cannot pitch what do you do with Ohtani? With all his talent he will not just DH again if he cannot pitch. I'm sure the Angel organization has had discussion about this. Joe Maddon has also spoken about this. So my question to you if Ohtani cannot pitch what do you do with him?

Put him in LF and move Upton to DH. He might have some big adjustments to make, but with his speed, it can make up for some mistakes he might make. Moreso than Upton.