Right Field Options for the Angels

[mmc]

They have to be a glove first player.  I don't understand why more people don't seem to think this.  Our outfield defense (and defense in general) was horrific last year, this is a way bigger hole to address vs getting a boost in offense to whatever Upton/Adell/Ward/Marsh produce next season.  Minasian will absolutely want to address this.

[Warfarin]

13 minutes ago, mmc said:

They have to be a glove first player.  I don't understand why more people don't seem to think this.  Our outfield defense (and defense in general) was horrific last year, this is a way bigger hole to address vs getting a boost in offense to whatever Upton/Adell/Ward/Marsh produce next season.  Minasian will absolutely want to address this.

I think ultimately, if we had to settle on a mediocre defensive RF for this season, it might be an option since Marsh will likely be ready soon and projects to be a very good defensive RF.  I think Minasian wants long-term solutions defensively (if he can get them), but since whoever he acquires to play RF will likely be a 1/2-1 year stop gap, it's not as critical, since he has someone in the wings who projects to be a very good defender (and can backup CF).

Jackie Bradley Jr was mentioned as an option, and while he's intriguing, almost all of his value comes from his CF defense, and unless we decide to move Trout off CF for him (zero chance) .. I don't see him as a good fit.

I'm not as against Schwarber as others are in that if we sign him, I think it's a sign there's some serious consideration to having Ohtani play RF.  If so, then Ohtani can split time with Ward in RF, while Schwarber can split time in LF with Upton and also play some DH too.  After Joc, Schwarber is probably the best LHH OF option in terms of what he brings offensively, and for a lineup that is heavily tilted with RHH, a thumper LHH does hold value.

[Mark68]

I wouldn't mind Dahl or JBJ. Otherwise, I'm fine with what we have. We must keep our eyes on the prize--pitching (and maybe catching--but mostly pitching).

[greginpsca]

RF is not the top priority . We need 2 starters, and at least one more reliever, plus a catcher more than we need a rf'er. If the pitching/ catcher get filled. I think they can fill rf from within. Put Walsh in rf, and have Thaiss platoon with Pooholes. That is if they aren't traded trying to get pitching.

[Pancake Bear]

I'd probably lean for a glove first guy than can play CF when Trout is out if it was my call. 

[angels1963]

After they get  a top  SP, I like Rosario or Dahl, good BA and power. Wouldn't even consider Puig or Schwarber and their 180 something BA.

[BTH]

2 hours ago, mmc said:

They have to be a glove first player.  I don't understand why more people don't seem to think this.  Our outfield defense (and defense in general) was horrific last year, this is a way bigger hole to address vs getting a boost in offense to whatever Upton/Adell/Ward/Marsh produce next season.  Minasian will absolutely want to address this.

This is my thought as well.

Generally, teams swap out their bad defensive players for better defensive players when they are leading in late innings (no, duh). Last season, the Angels were swapping in Taylor Ward (a converted C/3B) for "better defense." That shows just how bad they were defensively and how they had no true good defensive outfielders even on the bench.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

This is my thought as well.

Generally, teams swap out their bad defensive players for better defensive players when they are leading in late innings (no, duh). Last season, the Angels were swapping in Taylor Ward (a converted C/3B) for "better defense." That shows just how bad they were defensively and how they had no true good defensive outfielders even on the bench.

Ward has been showing decent range and athleticism out there, but I would agree that defensively, he's merely, "fine" in RF and not really the sort you use as a defensive upgrade. Trout is above average in CF, and Upton probably should be a DH and part time LF at this stage of his career. He doesn't look very good in LF. 

[T.G.]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ward has been showing decent range and athleticism out there, but I would agree that defensively, he's merely, "fine" in RF and not really the sort you use as a defensive upgrade. Trout is above average in CF, and Upton probably should be a DH and part time LF at this stage of his career. He doesn't look very good in LF. 

Ok. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I watched maybe a game and a half this year.... and that was probably spread over multiple games.... so like 14 innings, maybe, spread over 5 games.

So I saw Adell maybe bat a few times, saw him butcher a play once I think. But I literally have no idea what the book on him is.

For those of you who actually did watch, is it just a case of he was too new, needs more time? Or is it time to temper expectations?

Again, I have no idea. I didnt pay any attention to this season at all. 

Im not even sure I saw Rendon hit?

[T.G.]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I watched maybe a game and a half this year.... and that was probably spread over multiple games.... so like 14 innings, maybe, spread over 5 games.

So I saw Adell maybe bat a few times, saw him butcher a play once I think. But I literally have no idea what the book on him is.

For those of you who actually did watch, is it just a case of he was too new, needs more time? Or is it time to temper expectations?

Again, I have no idea. I didnt pay any attention to this season at all. 

Oh hell, TORS! Do you have any idea what you've just done?

 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ward has been showing decent range and athleticism out there, but I would agree that defensively, he's merely, "fine" in RF and not really the sort you use as a defensive upgrade. Trout is above average in CF, and Upton probably should be a DH and part time LF at this stage of his career. He doesn't look very good in LF. 

before 2020, Ward had spent all of 3 games and 25 innings in RF as a pro yet he was very capable.  His athleticism has been obvious at multiple positions.  I see no reason why he can't get better defensively than what we saw.  My point is that a total of 22 professional games in RF probably means he can improve.  Especially if he's been getting his off season workouts in as a RFer.  

[Second Base]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

before 2020, Ward had spent all of 3 games and 25 innings in RF as a pro yet he was very capable.  His athleticism has been obvious at multiple positions.  I see no reason why he can't get better defensively than what we saw.  My point is that a total of 22 professional games in RF probably means he can improve.  Especially if he's been getting his off season workouts in as a RFer.  

Preaching to the choir. He was just saying Ward wasn't exactly a defensive specialist, and I agreed, despite my optimistic view of how his athleticism translates in the future.

Furthermore, I share similar confidence that with off-season work, Matt Thaiss has the tools to be successfully adequate at 2B just like he is at 3B.

[Revad]

I know Walsh has looked very good but I have high hopes still for Ward and Thaiss.  Still need someone to spell Trout in center though.

[Docwaukee]

25 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I watched maybe a game and a half this year.... and that was probably spread over multiple games.... so like 14 innings, maybe, spread over 5 games.

So I saw Adell maybe bat a few times, saw him butcher a play once I think. But I literally have no idea what the book on him is.

For those of you who actually did watch, is it just a case of he was too new, needs more time? Or is it time to temper expectations?

Again, I have no idea. I didnt pay any attention to this season at all. 

Im not even sure I saw Rendon hit?

to me it looked like he was uncomfortable.  He's had some experience there but he really looked like he'd never been out there. 

[Docwaukee]

28 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Preaching to the choir. He was just saying Ward wasn't exactly a defensive specialist, and I agreed, despite my optimistic view of how his athleticism translates in the future.

Furthermore, I share similar confidence that with off-season work, Matt Thaiss has the tools to be successfully adequate at 2B just like he is at 3B.

I'm less confident about your second paragraph.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

to me it looked like he was uncomfortable.  He's had some experience there but he really looked like he'd never been out there. 

Maybe its too early to speculate, but would you say the tools are there, just needs a bit of time?

Only reason I ask is that i thought adell and marsh were the future.... so i wouldnt worry too much about getting a RF.... unless he looked like overhype.

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Maybe its too early to speculate, but would you say the tools are there, just needs a bit of time?

Only reason I ask is that i thought adell and marsh were the future.... so i wouldnt worry too much about getting a RF.... unless he looked like overhype.

It's never too early to speculate.  This is Angelswin dammit!  I was about to start a thread speculating what round the Angels will draft Beckham Trout.  

I've said this before.  Adell is probably still exactly who everyone that matters though he was.  A tremendously talented 21yo who has the potential to be an elite talent in the majors for many years yet not right this second.  

The people that may or may not trade him probably don't feel any differently about him than they ever have and his struggles in 2020 likely changed nothing for them.  The reason that he's become AW tradeable is that he was unfairly put on a pedestal by most (myself included) as the guy that walks in a takes over the game like Ron Acuna or Fernando Tatis jr or Juan Soto.  That's who many of us were hoping he was yet his short stint in the major opened some eyes.  

Now he's back to being an elite prospect with some work to do before he has success in the majors.  You don't trade the next Ron Acuna but maybe you trade the next Yoan Moncada for someone who is a top of the rotation guy with 3+ years of control if that's what your team is in need of to get them to the next level.  

There's a difference between wanting to trade Adell and now having the willingness to do so. 

And I am worried about RF for 2021.  Maybe Marsh or Adell turn a corner but it's ultra risky to bank on that after what we saw of Adell and the fact that we've never seen Marsh who's also never had an at bat above AA.  So the team should absolutely cover their bases which they can very much do without committing big chunks of money.  

[failos]

6 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I watched maybe a game and a half this year.... and that was probably spread over multiple games.... so like 14 innings, maybe, spread over 5 games.

So I saw Adell maybe bat a few times, saw him butcher a play once I think. But I literally have no idea what the book on him is.

For those of you who actually did watch, is it just a case of he was too new, needs more time? Or is it time to temper expectations?

Again, I have no idea. I didnt pay any attention to this season at all. 

Im not even sure I saw Rendon hit?

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

11 minutes ago, failos said:

 

Remind me.... did he canseco a ball over the wall, or something like that? 

[Angelsjunky]

I agree with that excellent post, Doc, except I'm not as worried about RF as you. At most, I really think they should only go with a one-year rental and/or 4OF type, and maybe not even that. 

What they "need" is someone who can platoon with Ward in RF and play an adequate CF, in the horrible possibility that Trout gets injured... even if he doesn't, he probably needs to be spelled from CF duties for about 20 games out of a full season to rest his chonk. And they already have that in Scott Schebler. He's a RFer who has played CF, seemingly decently enough for occasional duty (2 errors in 158 putouts from 2016-19). So they may already have what they need to keep the OF warm until Marsh or Adell is ready.

If they want greater certainty and an improvement in quality over Ward/Schebler, looking at the Fangraphs free agent tracker, the most obvious choice is Kevin Pillar, who is predicted to get 1/$5M and can play all three OF positions adequately. Other, cheaper options include Jake Marisnick and, well, Brian Goodwin, although Goodwin might be more in the Pillar range in terms of money. And I think the gap between those guys and Ward/Schebler is negligible, if anything at all. Again, add in and overall excellent offense and both Adell and Marsh on the cusp, I don't see the need to spend the dough.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Appreciate it @Dochalo. again, i didnt see him. And from what i read he sucked bad, and that shouldnt be ignored completely. But, ill cut him slack.... 2020 has obviously been weird as hell. I cant personally take anything sports related too seriously right now. Not just in terms of bigger picture of the world issues, but the short season, no spring, no minors etc etc. Whole thing was so slapped together that i guess i havent soured on him too much, because so many variables have to be taken into account.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Appreciate it @Dochalo. again, i didnt see him. And from what i read he sucked bad, and that shouldnt be ignored completely. But, ill cut him slack.... 2020 has obviously been weird as hell. I cant personally take anything sports related too seriously right now. Not just in terms of bigger picture of the world issues, but the short season, no spring, no minors etc etc. Whole thing was so slapped together that i guess i havent soured on him too much, because so many variables have to be taken into account.

He was truly, truly awful defensively in RF - looking like a high school kid, or Manny Ramirez. He had moments with the bat, including a 2 HR game when it looked like he would turn the corner, but then went back to sucking. He reminded me a bit of what you'd expect from an A+ player making the jump. Adell had mashed in AA (.308/.390/.553 in 43 games) but barely held his own in AAA (.264/.321/.355 in 27 games), but didn't have a chance to really get going. 

Of all the Angels players, I think he was hurt most by the lack of a minor league season. We don't know if it will have a long-term impact, but while guys like Marsh were at least honing their skills in Long Beach, Adell was eroding his confidence in the majors. It was truly a lost year.

The Angels just need to put him in AAA and leave him there for a few months without a thought of calling him up. Marsh should be up next, and I think he'll adjust to AAA quickly and well and be ready for the majors by mid-season, if the Angels need him.

[Docwaukee]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I agree with that excellent post, Doc, except I'm not as worried about RF as you. At most, I really think they should only go with a one-year rental and/or 4OF type, and maybe not even that. 

What they "need" is someone who can platoon with Ward in RF and play an adequate CF, in the horrible possibility that Trout gets injured... even if he doesn't, he probably needs to be spelled from CF duties for about 20 games out of a full season to rest his chonk. And they already have that in Scott Schebler. He's a RFer who has played CF, seemingly decently enough for occasional duty (2 errors in 158 putouts from 2016-19). So they may already have what they need to keep the OF warm until Marsh or Adell is ready.

If they want greater certainty and an improvement in quality over Ward/Schebler, looking at the Fangraphs free agent tracker, the most obvious choice is Kevin Pillar, who is predicted to get 1/$5M and can play all three OF positions adequately. Other, cheaper options include Jake Marisnick and, well, Brian Goodwin, although Goodwin might be more in the Pillar range in terms of money. And I think the gap between those guys and Ward/Schebler is negligible, if anything at all. Again, add in and overall excellent offense and both Adell and Marsh on the cusp, I don't see the need to spend the dough.

 

I worried exactly to the extent that you are actually.  A capable 4th OFer who can sub a bit in CF.  GFB something happens to our CFer (can't even write it) and I think we'll see Marsh or Adell get the call.  But yes, a 1yr rental/stop gap at most which we might already have in Schebler.  I'm also quite sure there will be others who slip and slide through the Covid cracks.  

Don't sleep on guys like Kean Wong or Jam Jones for their positional versatility which Maddon loves.  

Other options could be a DeShields, or a Ben Gamel

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

He was truly, truly awful defensively in RF - looking like a high school kid, or Manny Ramirez. He had moments with the bat, including a 2 HR game when it looked like he would turn the corner, but then went back to sucking. He reminded me a bit of what you'd expect from an A+ player making the jump. Adell had mashed in AA (.308/.390/.553 in 43 games) but barely held his own in AAA (.264/.321/.355 in 27 games), but didn't have a chance to really get going. 

Of all the Angels players, I think he was hurt most by the lack of a minor league season. We don't know if it will have a long-term impact, but while guys like Marsh were at least honing their skills in Long Beach, Adell was eroding his confidence in the majors. It was truly a lost year.

The Angels just need to put him in AAA and leave him there for a few months without a thought of calling him up. Marsh should be up next, and I think he'll adjust to AAA quickly and well and be ready for the majors by mid-season, if the Angels need him.

I'm gonna put on my psych hat for a second so brace yourself.  

Adell seems like a very confident person on the surface.  Not in a bad way.  And it looked like he was trying very hard to go out and hustle for the team and try his best.  But to me, you could tell his confidence was shaken a bit.  And that might not be such a bad thing.  A little bit of failure might have been good for him as he seems the type to take that and find a way to make himself better for it.